I believe that the AR and mini 14 platforms are built to a lot tighter tolerance then an AK platform, and can handle any variance in the steel cases. So, personally, steel is a last resort for the platforms I have
I shoot steel, but only in my Mosin Nagant carbine. All other platforms get a steady diet of brass. I did run a few boxes of aluminum cased ammo in my Canik pistol, but after the extractor ripped the rim & caused a failure to extract .. brass only .. and I haven't looked back.
Years back I got rid of a case of Blazer .357. Aluminum cased. It expanded and couldn't get it out of a revolver. Bad in a handgun, not problem in a lever carbine. Beware
Steel is harder than brass, brass being a soft alloy. I've always figured that steel might be tough on my extractor and maybe the chamber too. I can't prove any of this, just my opinion. I have some steel AK rounds but they are for last ditch use...or barter.
Steel can be made as hard or as soft as you want, depending on the intended application. A steel cartridge case is about the same hardness as a brass case. The difference is the brass is more ductile and doesn't work harden as quickly as steel. Which is harder - a steel gun barrel or a steel cartridge case? That's what matters.
Steel, brass, aluminum, I don't care. I'll shoot it all and haven't had issues with any of them. And I shoot a _lot_. More than any of you do, I'll bet.
I've run a lot of steel cased ammo, most with "bi-metal" (copper washed steel) in several ARs. I shot about 2,000 rounds of old-style Wolf through two 16" rifles in a weekend, mostly rapid fire. Other than smelling like catshit, and being a little gummed up, no ill effects. Before the last ammo crunch, 500-1,000 rounds through two rifles every other weekend was the norm, and often used Wolf due to cost. If one is worried about barrel erosion, rapid fire is automatically out. Beyond that, any (mild) steel bullets are copper washed/plated for friction control and if that doesn't seem like enough TLC, leave your rifle in the safe. If one is worried about function issues with steel cases, I haven't seen any...before, during or after steel.
The only downside I've had with "bi-metal" is that they shouldn't be used on steel - they chip the targets up pretty bad and the spall can be dangerous to the shooter & bystanders.
I shoot it all as well Two Dogs. No problems. Back in the early 90's I bought some "lacquered" steel .30-.06 rounds (it was probably made for some belt-fed we sent to the Motherland under the lend lease agreement). Long story short, it didn't perform very well. When the lacquer heated up, it'd got gummy and failed to feed/eject as designed. No problems with the modern stuff by Wolf, Brown Bear, etc. today.
I won't get it but I got some .30 carbine on accident once. It works fine in the carbine but it jams up in a Ruger Blackhawk. You have to take the cylinder out and hammer the cartridge out.
I've shot the hell out of steel cased ammo. Not just Ruskie stuff, but back when you could get Chinese steel cased, copper washed ammo for $2.00/20 in .308. Also shot up a bunch of old (as in 1930's manufacture) steel cased 8mm Mauser from Czechoslovakia. That stuff was corrosive, but I figured it would be when I bought it. Some Windex sprayed down the barrel and the bolt after shooting, then clean and lube, and no corrosion problems...
Only problems I ever had were shooting .357 Mag. in my GP100. Had to take a wood dowel and beat the cases out of the cylinder. Sprayed the hell out of it with some Ballistol and no more problems with stuck cases for the rest of the box. But, I still would not buy that caliber again in steel. Never had any trouble in semi-autos, though. I do tend to keep them lubed up better than the revolvers, though.
100% agree with these guys. The older ammo was corrosive and was dirty but it all went bang. The newer stuff functions just fine and same results...dirty and still goes bang. More than likely if folks have FTF or FTE it is a gun and not ammo issue.
I believe that the AR and mini 14 platforms are built to a lot tighter tolerance then an AK platform, and can handle any variance in the steel cases. So, personally, steel is a last resort for the platforms I have
ReplyDeleteLived in Montezuma or 5 years about 4 blocks from Brownell's. Never saw those two guys once. And Montezuma is not a big place.
ReplyDeleteNow they are in Grinnell next to the Airport they built. Looks like they are trying to be a Bass Pro or Cabella's.
Hope they do what they want. Did get to shoot on there range once. Pretty nice range but a long ways to drive these days.
I shoot steel, but only in my Mosin Nagant carbine. All other platforms get a steady diet of brass. I did run a few boxes of aluminum cased ammo in my Canik pistol, but after the extractor ripped the rim & caused a failure to extract .. brass only .. and I haven't looked back.
ReplyDeleteYears back I got rid of a case of Blazer .357. Aluminum cased. It expanded and couldn't get it out of a revolver. Bad in a handgun, not problem in a lever carbine. Beware
DeleteI don't care. I don't use it.
ReplyDeleteQuestion ...which is harder...steel or brass?
ReplyDeleteSteel is harder than brass, brass being a soft alloy. I've always figured that steel might be tough on my extractor and maybe the chamber too. I can't prove any of this, just my opinion. I have some steel AK rounds but they are for last ditch use...or barter.
DeleteSteel can be made as hard or as soft as you want, depending on the intended application.
DeleteA steel cartridge case is about the same hardness as a brass case. The difference is the brass is more ductile and doesn't work harden as quickly as steel.
Which is harder - a steel gun barrel or a steel cartridge case? That's what matters.
Who would'a thought bi-metal bullets in a red hot barrel will cause throat erosion...
ReplyDeleteThat almost sounds dirty.
DeleteMadMarlin
Steel, brass, aluminum, I don't care. I'll shoot it all and haven't had issues with any of them. And I shoot a _lot_. More than any of you do, I'll bet.
ReplyDelete+1 Two Dogs.
DeleteI've run a lot of steel cased ammo, most with "bi-metal" (copper washed steel) in several ARs. I shot about 2,000 rounds of old-style Wolf through two 16" rifles in a weekend, mostly rapid fire. Other than smelling like catshit, and being a little gummed up, no ill effects. Before the last ammo crunch, 500-1,000 rounds through two rifles every other weekend was the norm, and often used Wolf due to cost. If one is worried about barrel erosion, rapid fire is automatically out. Beyond that, any (mild) steel bullets are copper washed/plated for friction control and if that doesn't seem like enough TLC, leave your rifle in the safe. If one is worried about function issues with steel cases, I haven't seen any...before, during or after steel.
The only downside I've had with "bi-metal" is that they shouldn't be used on steel - they chip the targets up pretty bad and the spall can be dangerous to the shooter & bystanders.
Ed
I shoot it all as well Two Dogs. No problems.
DeleteBack in the early 90's I bought some "lacquered" steel .30-.06 rounds (it was probably made for some belt-fed we sent to the Motherland under the lend lease agreement). Long story short, it didn't perform very well. When the lacquer heated up, it'd got gummy and failed to feed/eject as designed. No problems with the modern stuff by Wolf, Brown Bear, etc. today.
I won't get it but I got some .30 carbine on accident once.
ReplyDeleteIt works fine in the carbine but it jams up in a Ruger Blackhawk. You have to take the cylinder out and hammer the cartridge out.
So,why do certain manufacturers of firearms void their warranty if said firearm was using steel ammo?
ReplyDeleteFrankly, I wouldn't worry about it, but there it is . . ?
DeleteInteresting video, thanks for posting it.
DeleteSo do reloads. Just manufacturer ass covering.
DeleteI've ran a ton of brown bear and golden bear steel case ammo thru my sks never had any problems
ReplyDeleteI've shot the hell out of steel cased ammo. Not just Ruskie stuff, but back when you could get Chinese steel cased, copper washed ammo for $2.00/20 in .308. Also shot up a bunch of old (as in 1930's manufacture) steel cased 8mm Mauser from Czechoslovakia. That stuff was corrosive, but I figured it would be when I bought it. Some Windex sprayed down the barrel and the bolt after shooting, then clean and lube, and no corrosion problems...
ReplyDeleteOnly problems I ever had were shooting .357 Mag. in my GP100. Had to take a wood dowel and beat the cases out of the cylinder. Sprayed the hell out of it with some Ballistol and no more problems with stuck cases for the rest of the box. But, I still would not buy that caliber again in steel. Never had any trouble in semi-autos, though. I do tend to keep them lubed up better than the revolvers, though.
100% agree with these guys. The older ammo was corrosive and was dirty but it all went bang. The newer stuff functions just fine and same results...dirty and still goes bang. More than likely if folks have FTF or FTE it is a gun and not ammo issue.
ReplyDelete