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Wednesday, September 20, 2023

Peak American: the Winchester 1897 Trench Gun in WWI

VIDEO HERE  (17:02 minutes)

The United States was the only country to use shotguns in World War One in a substantial way. It was not the first time the US had used such guns either; shotguns were used in the Philippines against the Moros and on the Mexican Punitive Expedition. For use in the Great War, however, it was deemed necessary to fit bayonets to them. At the request of the War Department, the Winchester company designed a bayonet mounting adapter for their Model 1897 pump-action shotgun, to use the M1917 bayonet that Winchester was also making at the time for the war effort.

Guns were first deployed to France in June 1918 for field testing, used with 9-pellet 00 buckshot in paper hulled cartridges. The reactions from troops in the field varied widely. Those who tended to be in relatively dry conditions with close-range combat tended to like them. Those in particularly wet areas had problems with the paper shells swelling, and those engaged in more open combat at range had little use for them. They were primarily used for military police roles like guarding POWs, but some did see combat.

The US military actually used Winchester 1897s in three different configurations. Guns like this one with bayonet mounts and heat shields, "riot" types with short (20") plain barrels, and long-barreled models used for training aircraft and anti-aircraft gunners. Numbers are conflicting and sources are complex, but the best assessment appears to be that approximately 12,000 trench models and about 18,000 riot models were sent to the Army (note that in the video I said 18,000 riot and training - that should have been just riot).

12 comments:

  1. Had a 97’ for about two months. That exposed hammer and the web of my hand got together enough times I thought they were dating, so it had to go. Eod1sg Ret

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    1. Dad’s 97 had a small chunk missing at the toe of the stock because of that very reason.
      He was duck hunting and cycled the pump. When that bolt came back and carved a furrow in his thumb, he was so pissed he threw it down.

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  2. Great gun. No disconnecter, like the model 12. Beware the hammer bite. If I owned another, I would make the hammer a commander model.

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  3. Don't own any guns but have a fascination with them

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  4. We had Winchester Shotguns with really long bayonets when I was in the Berlin Brigade. We only used them when we had Rapid Reaction Force Platoon for Checkpoint Charlie. They scared the Germans.

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    1. hell, they still had some of the old brass rounds too when I was there. 1977-79.
      most of the time they where handed out for guard duty at the ammo bunkers.
      lots of rabbits there. you had to throw rocks at them, because god help your ass if you fired off a round. dave in pa. C co. 4/6 back in the day

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    2. I was C Co 5-502d which had just changed right before I got there from the alligator and ladder thing. In 2019 I went to a 30 year reunion in Berlin. I left in July 89 the wall fell shortly after.

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  5. Trench Guns are a fascinating subject. Real ones are pricey. Beware of fakes.
    I have been told that (some) Norinco '97 TG replicas are pretty good. New-production Ithaca Model 37s are available and not as bitey. Either might be a good option for someone unwilling to pony up for a legit Trench Gun.

    I went a different route. Starting with a commercial Stevens 620 and some internet research I built my own. I sourced a repro bayo/heat shield and some milsurp parts and went to town. It would never pass as an original, but it looks pretty good.
    One could do the same with other pump guns, though I wouldn't advise cutting up an heirloom.

    https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/the-norinco-97-a-ramen-noodle-take-on-winchester/

    https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Shotguns/M37-Trench-shotgun.html

    https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.php?smallarms_id=677



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  6. I shot Cowboy Action for many years with a '97. It's a great gun. One of the world champions was asked when he used a double barrel instead of a '97. He said "When they make me."

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  7. I have an old 97’. It is just for shits and giggles. Wouldn’t trade or sell it for nothing.

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  8. Flannel Daddy:
    https://youtu.be/0nRWqKC5bqQ?t=20

    C&Rsenal:
    https://youtu.be/oROttbSkayU

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  9. Have an Ithaca model 37. 18.5 inch barrel 5 shot. Parkerized finish. Bought it in 1987. Great gun.

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