Standard combat load for the M1 was 88 rounds, ten in the pouches and one down. With the M14 it increased to 100 rounds. With the M16 the combat load is 210 rounds. The extra 110, or 122 chances to hit and hurt an adversary justify the round. A miss with a 5.56 does just as much harm as a miss with a 30-06, but when you run out of bangers I guess you have a better club with the M1 or M14. I recently got to shoot an AR pistol in 300 Blackout. RAM offers ammo at$275 for 500 rounds
All those newer cartridges are pricey. A buck a pop takes some fun out of shooting an AR. But imported 7.62X39 is still reasonable. Will run in your SKS, AK and Mini 30. And you can get premium X39 if you need it.
My favorite is the 6.8SPCII. Covers everything I might need it for. I reload, which helps, and RMR has 90gr gold dots for pretty cheap.
Quite a few years ago I watched a documentary on the A1 and its introduction to the Army. Someone will come along and let me know where I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, when SF tested it under original configuration in Vietnam it worked perfectly. It wasn't until the Army to mass issue it that it was screwed up. The Army decided they knew better and changed the bullet, powder, and barrel and then sold it as a never needs cleaned weapon, which caused the bad rep the AR/M16 family has had all of these years. Once they went back to near original specs and sent out field kits it started working near perfect again.
I like the 350 Legend. Winchester makes a loading at .50cents/round until this ammo shortage disappeared it. Winchester assures me they are making it, but I have yet to see any for sale anywhere. Guess I should get some dies for it and load my own.
There was, maybe it's still up, a youtube site called AK Operators Union, Rob Ski would torture all varieties of AKs to failure. I believe that if you stay with quality hardware most all can compete with each other equally. JD
Interesting videos. I'm AR, but have qualified with the AK series while on active duty at Grafenwhoer, FRG. Nice little week long cert course on all things Soviet small arms. I'd take either one, and simply operate within their limitations.
I thought they'd both fire once and not again until they got hosed off at the nearest fire hydrant. I'm definitely impressed. Did you notice at the end of the AR test he tossed the rifle on the ground? I always figured an AR would be toast just doing that to it.
Well, the same people that rotely say the AR platform isn't robust and the AK is, are the same ones that tell us the M1 Carbine is useless and unable to penetrate Chinese cold weather clothing.
Beans i had a top in my Marine company that told me that an M1 carbine does not penetrate chinese cold weather gear unless you were 50 yards or less and at 50 yards the bullet was just in the skin, so yeah it does not have the penetrating power you think!!!! Grayman
It was found, after Chosin, that the damned stupid Army required the carbine ammo be made with full rifle powder, not the powder originally specified for the M1 Carbine during WWII. So, yes, during Korea, there were issues with the powder in cold environments, but that was due to fuckery by High Command wanting to cheap out on all the left-over rifle powder from WWII.
Shades of what screwed up the M16 early on in Vietnam, High Command specifying a different powder than what the gun was designed to use.
Go to the Box of Truth and check out his M1 Carbine: https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-36-frozen-clothing-and-the-box-o-truth/
The M1 Carbine is a fine woods gun for deer up to 200 yards or so, even 300 yards. Works well on men, too. Has plenty of penetration as long as the correct powder is used.
I think that there has been more than enough testing on the old Chinese coat story to show that it is B.S. And funny enough, it never seemed to have that issue with German coats a few years earlier.
I remember hearing an explanation for that. It wasn't that the round didn't have the power to penetrate the winter clothing, but rather that the powder being used in the military rounds had an odd power dropoff as it got colder. Most powders lose power a little bit as it gets colder, but do so in a nice shallow curve, and there is very little practical difference at any temperatures you'd actually survive. That particular power, however kind of fell off a cliff in power in very cold weather. I can't remember the actual temperatures, but it would act just fine down to (pulling a number out of the air) say about -15 or so, then would suddenly drop in power by about (again a guess) half. I don't know how true that is, and it's late and I don't feel like finding a source, or the actual numbers, but it would explain why there are a lot of stories about the .30 carbine not penetrating winter clothing, but controlled tests show plenty of power.
The Soviets spent decades bragging about the realuabilty of the AK over the AR. "You could submerse in mud and drive over it with a truck and would still fire" etc. As much as I hate floating charge handles, and its gas operating system, the AR proves that it is more reliable. Congrats to Eugine Stoner!
The test is fundamentally flawed due to the lubricity of watery mud. Let it cake and try again... The bolt assist was added for a reason namely as the AR was unreliable and prone to jams without it under dirty field conditions. The AK has a looser mechanism and killed the AR in reality. I love the AR though.
Carried an M16 for 16 years. Had one failure to feed, and that was with blank ammunition. Otherwise, not one problem. M16 in Vietnam, A1 and A2 in National Guard.
The A1 had it’s faults. But the A2 has but one fault from being the finest combat arm, it’s chambering of 5.56.
ReplyDeleteStandard combat load for the M1 was 88 rounds, ten in the pouches and one down. With the M14 it increased to 100 rounds.
DeleteWith the M16 the combat load is 210 rounds. The extra 110, or 122 chances to hit and hurt an adversary justify the round.
A miss with a 5.56 does just as much harm as a miss with a 30-06, but when you run out of bangers I guess you have a better club with the M1 or M14.
I recently got to shoot an AR pistol in 300 Blackout. RAM offers ammo at$275 for 500 rounds
There's plenty of other chamberings now. My favorite is the 300 Blackout. I just wish the ammo was cheaper.
ReplyDeleteThe ultimate "Get off my lawn gun".
DeleteAll those newer cartridges are pricey. A buck a pop takes some fun out of shooting an AR. But imported 7.62X39 is still reasonable. Will run in your SKS, AK and Mini 30. And you can get premium X39 if you need it.
Delete=TW=
My favorite is the 6.8SPCII. Covers everything I might need it for. I reload, which helps, and RMR has 90gr gold dots for pretty cheap.
DeleteQuite a few years ago I watched a documentary on the A1 and its introduction to the Army. Someone will come along and let me know where I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, when SF tested it under original configuration in Vietnam it worked perfectly. It wasn't until the Army to mass issue it that it was screwed up. The Army decided they knew better and changed the bullet, powder, and barrel and then sold it as a never needs cleaned weapon, which caused the bad rep the AR/M16 family has had all of these years. Once they went back to near original specs and sent out field kits it started working near perfect again.
I like the 350 Legend. Winchester makes a loading at .50cents/round until this ammo shortage disappeared it. Winchester assures me they are making it, but I have yet to see any for sale anywhere. Guess I should get some dies for it and load my own.
Delete"The Army decided they knew better and changed the bullet, powder, and barrel..."
DeleteThe exact thing Eugene Stoner told them not to do.
AK fanboys are just closeted commies.
ReplyDeleteThere was, maybe it's still up, a youtube site called AK Operators Union, Rob Ski would torture all varieties of AKs to failure.
ReplyDeleteI believe that if you stay with quality hardware most all can compete with each other equally.
JD
I love Rob Ski's videos!
DeleteCompletely opposite results of what I expected
ReplyDelete6.5 Grendel is the tits.
ReplyDeleteAmen. Good for slaying more than one hog at time.
DeleteInteresting videos. I'm AR, but have qualified with the AK series while on active duty at Grafenwhoer, FRG. Nice little week long cert course on all things Soviet small arms. I'd take either one, and simply operate within their limitations.
ReplyDeleteAnd those are the key words for any weapon - 'operate within their limitations'.
DeleteThat isn't at all what I expected. I expected both rifles to malfunction.
ReplyDeleteNemo
I thought they'd both fire once and not again until they got hosed off at the nearest fire hydrant. I'm definitely impressed. Did you notice at the end of the AR test he tossed the rifle on the ground? I always figured an AR would be toast just doing that to it.
DeleteWell, the same people that rotely say the AR platform isn't robust and the AK is, are the same ones that tell us the M1 Carbine is useless and unable to penetrate Chinese cold weather clothing.
ReplyDeleteYeah.
Always thought AK fanbois were full of crap.
Beans i had a top in my Marine company that told me that an M1 carbine does not penetrate chinese cold weather gear unless you were 50 yards or less and at 50 yards the bullet was just in the skin, so yeah it does not have the penetrating power you think!!!! Grayman
DeleteIt was found, after Chosin, that the damned stupid Army required the carbine ammo be made with full rifle powder, not the powder originally specified for the M1 Carbine during WWII. So, yes, during Korea, there were issues with the powder in cold environments, but that was due to fuckery by High Command wanting to cheap out on all the left-over rifle powder from WWII.
DeleteShades of what screwed up the M16 early on in Vietnam, High Command specifying a different powder than what the gun was designed to use.
Go to the Box of Truth and check out his M1 Carbine: https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-36-frozen-clothing-and-the-box-o-truth/
The M1 Carbine is a fine woods gun for deer up to 200 yards or so, even 300 yards. Works well on men, too. Has plenty of penetration as long as the correct powder is used.
I think that there has been more than enough testing on the old Chinese coat story to show that it is B.S. And funny enough, it never seemed to have that issue with German coats a few years earlier.
DeleteI remember hearing an explanation for that. It wasn't that the round didn't have the power to penetrate the winter clothing, but rather that the powder being used in the military rounds had an odd power dropoff as it got colder. Most powders lose power a little bit as it gets colder, but do so in a nice shallow curve, and there is very little practical difference at any temperatures you'd actually survive. That particular power, however kind of fell off a cliff in power in very cold weather. I can't remember the actual temperatures, but it would act just fine down to (pulling a number out of the air) say about -15 or so, then would suddenly drop in power by about (again a guess) half. I don't know how true that is, and it's late and I don't feel like finding a source, or the actual numbers, but it would explain why there are a lot of stories about the .30 carbine not penetrating winter clothing, but controlled tests show plenty of power.
DeleteThe Soviets spent decades bragging about the realuabilty of the AK over the AR.
ReplyDelete"You could submerse in mud and drive over it with a truck and would still fire"
etc. As much as I hate floating charge handles, and its gas operating system,
the AR proves that it is more reliable. Congrats to Eugine Stoner!
Is he wearing...SPLINTERTARN???
ReplyDeleteWhere is the condom?
ReplyDeleteThe test is fundamentally flawed due to the lubricity of watery mud. Let it cake and try again...
ReplyDeleteThe bolt assist was added for a reason namely as the AR was unreliable and prone to jams without it under dirty field conditions. The AK has a looser mechanism and killed the AR in reality.
I love the AR though.
Carried an M16 for 16 years. Had one failure to feed, and that was with blank ammunition. Otherwise, not one problem. M16 in Vietnam, A1 and A2 in National Guard.
ReplyDelete