During World War II Americans left the security of their own continent and helped save Western Europe from both Adolf Hitler’s Germany and Joseph Stalin’s Soviet Union. In doing so Americans also rescued Germans from Nazism. During the Cold War Americans spent decades on duty confronting Moscow while the Europeans freeloaded on defense. Ultimately the continent exulted as the Berlin Wall fell, the Warsaw Pact dissolved, and the Soviet Union collapsed — all courtesy decades of U.S. involvement.
Thank you, America? Well, not so much. That was then, this is now.
The French, those ungrateful pricks, forget that we had to pull their asses out of the fire twice last century, yet they still somehow think they shit ice cream. When the muslims finally take over their country, which they're pretty close to doing now, they'll be coming again with hat in hand to ask for our help.
ReplyDeleteThey haven't been great since Napoleon made his fatal mistake in Russia and really it goes even further back than that.
Nemo
"The French, those ungrateful pricks, forget that we had to pull their asses out of the fire twice last century"
DeleteYeah, but they were really quite pissed that we didn't go for the three-peat at Dien Bien Phu.
Donald Trump was right......Europe is nothing but a collection of freeloaders and beggars....I say leave them to their own devices....
ReplyDeleteWe shoulda concentrated on wiping out the Nips and left Hitler to clean up his patch.
ReplyDeleteThe problem was that Hitler did declare war to you after Pearl Harbor. Please be precise when talking about historical facts - Roosevelt may have wished to involve the US in the European theater but your people were less than enthusiastic - rightly so considering your people's experience with WWI. The moment Hitler declared war the US had no choice, so leaving Hitler "to clean up his patch" was not an option.
DeleteAs for the Europeans' negative attitude regarding the US political system, well, we're in a similar situation since our political system is equally corrupt, though with a slightly different emphasis: your system is compromised and dominated by a bunch of oligarchs our system is compromised ad dominated by a bunch of bureaucrats...
But seriously, in the last 2 presidential elections you had the choice between an egocentric dilettante and either a corrupt psycho or a senile pedophile - how much credibility could your political system maintain?
"our system is compromised ad dominated by a bunch of bureaucrats" [... but America] had the choice between an egocentric dilettante"
DeleteYeah, there you go. With a mindset like that, no shit you're dominated by bureaucrats. A man who was highly successful in multiple business endeavors is hardly a "dilettante". Trump just happened to NOT be of the political classes and not Deep State.
A masters degree in Political Science from the Sorbonne does not a good leader make.
On the other hand, no new wars for corporate profit, nor for brave and plucky little nations (such as our Greatest Ally); energy independence; robust economy; identification of the real external [1] threat (Communist China and not Russia) and aggressive measures to reduce its power -- all those are not bad accomplishments for a "dilettante".
[1] the discerning reader will note "external". The greatest threat to the US is, and has been for decades, internal.
@Anonymous: "The moment Hitler declared war the US had no choice, so leaving Hitler 'to clean up his patch' was not an option."
DeleteOther than Uboats, Hitler had no means of reaching the US; hell, he could only even reach Britain (Channel Islands aside) with Uboats and some of the Luftwaffe. The US could easily have responded to his declaration of war with "'K, call us when you get here; assuming everything works out your way in the Soviet Union, we'll go ahead and pencil you in for say, about 1955..."
Hey, Anon, yeah, Trump was so bad he raised up minority employment, got Germany to start thinking about defending itself after being a freeloader for over 40 years, did more for Gay and Minority rights than the whole of the Democratic Party, showed the World what a bunch of pompous nancies the Euros are, didn't engage in a new war and worked actively to pull back US military involvement across the world, was the first President to ever actually engage in a conversation with the North Koreans in North Korea, showed the world how bad the Communist Chinese were, lowered the taxes on US citizens which resulted in increased wages and spending which meant more overall tax income than before, tried to fix our broken immigration system to make it easier for educated people to come here rather than uneducated militant refugees and so much more.
DeleteAnd you have the gall to call him a Psycho?
What next, calling him 'Hitler,' the man who did more for Middle East peace than any of the last 20 presidents combined?
Seriously? Quit sniffing Merkle's butt and get some fresh air.
As to Germany, we should have never sent support to the Russians, and should have let national socialists (Germany and Italy) fight international socialists (the Russians.)
Sure, protect Britain, and stop any westward expansion after, yes, Germany declared War on the USA, but support the Soviet Union? Fuckem.
And, really, fuck France. The France that aided us during the American Revolution died starting in 1789. So, fuck France. Fuck Spain. Fuck Italy. Fuck Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and all the other little countries that whined about being under German Heel but as soon as we rescued their sorry asses, started bitching and holding out their hands for our money at the same time they actively worked to fuck us over.
Fuck you fucking Euro fucking pansies. Fuck you, you diseased whores who bend over for every petty tyrant and murder-death religion but screech like, well, fucking pansies when someone tries to be an adult around you pampered little pathetic losers.
@Mike_c - well, if you're happy with Trump's policies more power to you! From my, admittedly external perspective his policy was kind of inconsistent and you have to admit that he couldn't a stable cabinet if his life depended on it. As for his successful business endeavors, well I wouldn't call 6 bankruptcies that successful, but that's just me...
Delete@Fa Cube Itches - maybe, maybe not. Without a second front in North Africa and than later in Europe as well as without the massive logistic support Russia received, Hitler may well have stabilized the Eastern Front - and that's what Patton said... What a Nazi victory in Europe could have produced for the US nobody knows and it's fortunate it didn't came to pass, but I doubt it would have been better than what happened.
@Beans - read my post again: the psycho was Hillary, but anyway try to keep your spitting fury to a dull roar - it's a little embarrassing to notice your fury is somewhat misplaced...
As a general observation to your reactions: my point was that both your and our political systems are corrupt and are in the similar situation to the late years of the classical athenian democracy - riddled by nepotism and corruption it got usurped twice by oligarchies and later disbanded by the Macedonian conquerors.
Germany: Creates economic miracle that saves Germany from planned destruction after WW1, cleans up Weimar degeneracy, reclaims land that was taken from them and given to other countries, and holds back Stalin's planned invasion of Europe.
ReplyDeleteUS: "The Germans are trying to take over the world!" Joins the war on the side of the Soviet Union, bombs the shit out of Germany, killing millions of civilians and causing famine and disease outbreaks that kill millions more. "Hey Germans, we saved you from Nazism!" Gives half of Europe to the Soviets. "Hey Europe, we saved you from Communism too! Hey, what are you Europeans complaining about, after all we've done for you?"
Let's pause and take another look.
ReplyDeleteWorld War, part 1 and 2. Joe Sixpak was content to stay out of it, until manufactured consent riled him up out of his Barkalounge. He didn't give a shit about anybody but himself, and still doesn't.
He didn't save half of Europe from Stalin, he gave it to him. And the other half was corrupted so bad that Gorby praised it, and it is ruled by a mechanism so Soviet even Gorby praised it. We lost the cold war.
We? Yes, we the little guys, with long memories, longer than a series of Sportsball. We've been shat on for centuries, and take no pleasure in seeing your particular experiment coming to the expected end.
Thank you for tolerating the evil men that engineered WorldWar Parts 1 & 2,thank you for filling in a few small corners of our plots of war dead. I'm sorry for the individual and collective tragedies.
But don't push it too far, you will need friends soon. A lot of the hooah is simply shit, and it is high time you learned to tell the difference.
So many do not know we had to first fight and destroy the French Navy to get to N Africa in WWII. Also, all these dinks crying about the bomb and the atrocity on humanity. Look up Camp or Unit 731. Odd how a lot of history is buried.
ReplyDeleteHow many more Japanese would have died if, instead of dropping two nukes on their asses, instead kept up a blockade of the Japanese islands while continuing a program of firebombing every fucking hamlet and using defoliants on anything green until the islands became just a brown, dead land of death? Bombs killed, what, half a mill total? The deaths by starvation and poisoning alone would have been in the tens of millions.
DeleteAnd if we invaded? Genocide. I've talked to Japanese and, yes, it would have been a fight to the death. Post-Surrender analysis showed that we severely underestimated the number of casualties if we had invaded. Instead of having a surplus of Purple Hearts (we are still issuing the medals that were minted in preparation for the invasion of Japan) we would have had to mint millions more.
As to the economic miracle of the Nazis, well, yeah, if the War hadn't happened, when exactly was Hitler and the Nazi party going to actually provide the Volkswagons that the people had paid for? Hmmmm? Survey says... NEVER! The country was going through a minor blip and reconstruction but was headed towards a 2nd and much worse depression, which was one of the reasons Hitler and his buddies wanted to go on a war of conquest.
The Japanese would not exist today in any meaningful numbers today if the bombs hadn't been dropped. It might very well have become a state; no point giving it back to the Nips if nobody was left.
DeleteYou should not shear everyone with the same brush. Quite a few Germans know very well what the USA and the American people have sacrificed so that Germany could live in peace and enjoy the rewards of democracy.
ReplyDeletePlease do not mistake the people of Germany for our politicians. We are ruled by the same class of opportunistic socialist wanna-be dictators like you have in the USA now while the true will of the people is systematically being suppressed.
But this time there will be no help coming from the USA to Europe; this time we are entirely on our own.
The USA are well on their path to a socialist regime; slowly but steadily. The dream has turned into a nightmare.
http://coldfury.com/2021/02/08/facing-the-facts/
I think we all pretty much realize that the problems are with the politicians and not the people, just like here in the States.
DeleteMartin, I do have concerns with the Nazis. However, the German Army thought they were defending their homeland from invasion. The lies they were told by politicians. Even Rommel, one of the greatest generals to ever live, was a German soldier, not a Nazi. If I am in error please tell me.
DeleteYeah, funny how history repeats - Goebbels' propaganda was that successful and now the mainstream media is following the same successful recipe... The problem then as well as now is that the people tend to refuse critical thinking - it's much easier to accept the published info as unvarnished truth than to take responsibility for thinking for themselves. Add to this a rabid polarizing attitude and voila, you got the perfect recipe for disaster...
Delete@Wirecutter: spot on, absolutely correct. Our current political class (regardless of party affiliation) are the problem, not the solution.
Delete@Bright Eyes: Rommel was a career soldier and a first-rate officer. He was trained to follow orders. These orders came from Hitler, eventually. Does that make him a Nazi? Military historians across the board say no to this one.
The Nazis accumulated a mass of followers by masterful propaganda and mind control. The Nazis were very skilled manipulators of the human psyche. However, not every German was a Nazi. Some people retained their critical mindset and the ability to think for themselves. There was a sizeable resistance to Hitler and the Nazis but it was not organized, not decisive enough and too weak to oppose the omni-present control organs of the totalitarian state (e.g. Gestapo) effectively enough.
Study the history of the Third Reich closely and draw your conclusions: those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Martin, you may enjoy, D Day Through German Eyes, Holger Eckhertz. It is two books.
DeleteWe owe'd the French one, we paid twice I would say we are more than even now. Germany, meh they can learn russian and or chinese I think.
ReplyDeleteWall Street did the numbers and bailing out democracy made business sense, twice... The intent here is to drive a wedge between us. Most Europeans love you are eternally greatfull for saving us from speaking German and Russian. Just as you disregard your Establishment hating on the common man please disregard the disregard your European elites show the US. Do not let the paid agents of Russia and Russia itself drive a wedge between all the the peoples divided by the Atlantic. Remember the lessons of Bezmenow.
ReplyDeleteThere are still over 104,000 Americans buried in Europe from the first and second world wars, where we went over to help put the Germans down.
ReplyDeleteWWI 102 years ago
ReplyDeleteWWII 75 years ago
Cold War 35-40 years ago
When I was in Poland in 2010, most young people had no memories of the Soviets being there,
I don't think the folks in the EU owe me anything because I sure don't owe them!
Having been born in Britain and emigrated to the USA I have a leg in both camps. The question of British people saying that they need to be able to defend themselves without our help is actually more of an indication of the publics dissatisfaction with the piss poor spending on defence/defense by numerous British governments.
ReplyDeleteMost Brits are embarrassed by the fact that they rely on the US so much because of it.
They are also loathe to join any EU army as Brexit demonstrated.
Henry
When I flew tourists over the Grand Canyon and Lake Powell, 99% were French direct from France. Those that expressed any sentiment towards the U.S. - which were many - displayed a great love and affection for the U.S.
ReplyDeleteLiterally, beautiful women jumped into my arms. Several times there were old men who cried in joy that they were able to thank in person each and every American they had met. This includes military vets and active servicemen and a few bureaucratic dignitaries. One old man weeped as he profusely thanked me personally. One husband and wife spoke of how they lovingly care for the American cemeteries. Whole towns turn out on regular visits intended to groom the cemeteries. They showed pictures of their weekly visits to solemnly care for those sacred grounds.
The French are certainly insufferable pricks but you gotta hand it to them; they did throw the American Revolution into the win column for us. That attaboy is worth quite a few awshits.
ReplyDeleteNice back and forth everybody. Lots of rabbit holes for me to go down! Thanks.
ReplyDelete