Why, you ask? Check this out:
Last updated on November 3, 2022. You are independently responsible for complying with all applicable laws in all of your actions related to your use of PayPal's services, regardless of the purpose of the use. In addition, you must adhere to the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy. Violation of this Acceptable Use Policy constitutes a violation of the PayPal User Agreement and may subject you to damages, including liquidated damages of $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation, which may be debited directly from your PayPal account(s) as outlined in the User Agreement (see “Restricted Activities and Holds” section of the PayPal User Agreement)
5. involve the sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials that, in PayPal’s sole discretion, (a) are harmful, obscene, harassing, or objectionable, (b) depict or appear to depict nudity, sexual or other intimate activities, (c) depict or promote illegal drug use, (d) depict or promote violence, criminal activity, cruelty, or self-harm (e) depict, promote, or incite hatred or discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics (e.g. race, religion, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, etc.) (f) present a risk to user safety or wellbeing, (g) are fraudulent, promote misinformation, or are unlawful, (h) infringe the privacy, intellectual property rights, or other proprietary rights of any party, or (i) are otherwise unfit for publication.
That's right, Paypal is saying they can fine me $2500 PER INSTANCE for posting what they consider to be hate speech or misinformation on a platform they have nothing to do with.
Talk shit about the government? 2500 bucks.
Talk shit about tranny groomers? 2500 bucks.
Talk shit about LGBTWhatever? 2500 bucks.
Talk shit about gun grabbers? 2500 bucks.
Talk shit about Ukraine or whoever their pet is? 2500 bucks.
Fuck that.
I have been on the phone off and on all morning trying to shut my account down completely with no success. A little while ago I got a message from them saying that my account must remain inactive for SIX MONTHS before they'll close it.
I've done what I could. I've cancelled all recurring payments, pulled all funds from my account, removed my linked bank, removed the paypal button from the sidebar of this blog, all that good shit.
Again, please do NOT send me anything through paypal.
Thank you and thanks to WiscoDave who sent me the information about the Terms and Agreements.
Try Give Send Go. https://www.givesendgo.com/
ReplyDeleteI shit cannned paypal and ebay 12 years ago because they tried to illegally tag team me out of almost $1000 for an ebay transaction that went bad because of no fault of my own. It became impossible to work with either of those 2 tyrannical agencies. They called me all hours of the day and night threatening and harassing me.
DeleteMy bank told me they cannot stop paypal from accessing my account. period
So I withdrew all my money and closed that account, the only one I had with that bank.
This part is important:
I requested the bank branch manager to provide me with a document showing that my bank account was indeed closed, it was signed by him and notarized by another bank employee there.
I've been down that "closed account" scene before with a business account only to find out a clerical error did not close the account and charges for "below minimal average" kept accumulating and they never notified me about it. I found out when I moved to another state and tried to open a new account at a new bank and was denied until I cleared up the old account, which has went bankrupt and then sold to Wells Fargo who held it in receivership. It was a nightmare to deal with all of that. In the end I had to pay almost $3k in past due fees. Do NOT trust ebay, paypal, or your bank. They will fuck you deep if you allow them to.
Kenny, You might want to consider the payment option offered through Gab (Gabpay??).
ReplyDeleteIS PAYPAL A CRIMINAL ENDEAVOR? Sure looks like it. Censorship.
ReplyDeleteThis blogging platform's Terms and Conditions are bad enough.
DeleteI just saw that story earlier and closed my account. F 'em.
ReplyDeleteHow did you close it? They're telling me my account has to remain inactive for 6 months before I can close it out.
DeleteGreat info, will close mine ASAP. It’s rarely used anyway.
DeleteIt's possible mine was inactive for more than 6 months. I just logged in, noodled around in the site and tripped over a box to close my account. It was pretty easy, actually.
DeleteMine account was probably inactive for more than 6 months. I found the Close Account button and it was a snap. I just got the email confirmation.
DeleteI stopped buying things through PayPal awhile ago, since they have such policies. When I want to buy something from a vendor and they only take paypal I contact them and ask if I can send a check or something. If they say no, then I tell them I can't buy from them.
ReplyDeleteI've hated paypal for years. Closed the account years ago. Good luck man. Pure friggin evil.
ReplyDeleteLast updated November 2022? Is this legit?
ReplyDeleteAlso, you might want to send a snail mail letter to them registered mail that you want your account closed IMMEDIATELY because you just found out about this provision. It's good enough if you do this under your own signature, but if you have a lawyer friend who wouldn't mind putting it on his/her stationary, all the better.
ReplyDeleteYou also might consider getting your bank in on this in case PayPal tries dinging you for any "infractions" with their access to your account. Just because you unhooked it, does not mean they don't still know everything about it.
--nines
Good advice, thanks. I don't know if they have a physical address though. I had to jump through hoops just to get a phone number.
DeleteThey have to have articles of incorporation. There has to be a contact agent listed. You can google it up, and get it that way... also there is an organization in charge of all banking, which PayPal certainly has to heed, but I can't remember the name of it.
DeleteKenny, this may provide some guidance in what you are looking for: https://undisputedlegal.com/how-to-serve-legal-papers-on-paypal/
DeleteI have not used this, I do not have a "paypal" account, either.
If you mail them the letter, my understanding of it (I am not an attorney, my advice here is not legal advice) is that the date that your letter gets stamped and cancelled at USPS is the day of constructive notice to PayPal. This is known as the "mailbox rule", see: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mailbox_rule
I hope this helps. Please take care and get off the "X" that they have set up.
Thanks, I saved the links in case they want to be li'l bitches about it.
DeleteHow can this have last been updated on 'November 3, 2022'? Do PayPal have a time machine?
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting this, Kenny. I wouldn't have known otherwise. I'll do as you have done.
ReplyDeleteLet any other bloggers that you know using paypal about it too, please.
DeleteIs that November 2022 date correct....? is that when these conditions of use will go into effect?
ReplyDeleteI'm assuming so.
DeleteWonder when the snail mail people will involved themselves too?
DeleteGot about half the way through setting up a PP account when they first showed up, luckily saw through their bullshit before I even finished the process and backed away. Never FB, or any other (anti) social media either. I'm working to lower my online presence, not increase it.
ReplyDelete"Would you like to join our special discount club?"
Nope
"Download our new banking app today"
Nope
"Sign up for our weekly giveaway"
Nope
"Let us send you a free.....
Nope, Nope, Nope, and F. right O.
My PP account has been inactive for well over a year and they haven't closed it; in fact I get regular emails from PP regarding either service updates or wanting to lend/send money.
ReplyDeleteSame here. I've been just deleting those email updates unread because I haven't touched my account in years, and have no intention of doing so ever again. Haven't attempted to delete the account, and I'm not sure I even want to acknowledge that it exists.
DeleteI also will not touch FB or Twatter with a 10mb pole.
thanks, just closed mine
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info. Closed mine right after reading what you've been dealing with...
ReplyDeleteJust closed mine too. Thanks
ReplyDeleteHOLY SHIT, WHAT DID I START HERE???
DeleteBet you never thought you'd live to see yourself as the trendsetter for a sanity movement.
DeleteJust closed mine. I've been using them since 99 or so. Yeah, not supporting fascism in any shape or form.
DeleteAdd me to the list of fresh closures. Thanks wirecutter for the heads-up.
DeleteI'm currently in the process of entirely disconnecting PayPal from my business and collecting any financial statements I may need for taxes. The close button is at the bottom of profile settings from the account icon (top right) for those looking for it. I may wait until tax season to close the account out. Make copies of all your statements and information before closing PayPal out.
DeletePayoneer will likely replace PayPal for direct invoicing since I already have an inactive account with them; crypto, check, and silver are also suitable. WooCommerce has a method to handle CC transactions which I'll setup sometime later.
- Arc
Capt Kirk vouched for paypal. Now you are saying we can't trust Capt James T Kirk. What has happened to our world?
ReplyDeleteLast week I paid cash for my monthly ammo purchase. For the first time.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the credit card companies all deciding to create a special transaction code to identify all firearm related purchases.
The Sportsman store is pissed, going to need a bigger cash box.
Makes the chance of robbery greater with all that cash on hand. Or when trying to deposit it.
DeleteSportsman store, a.k.a my gun store. They have guns, lots of guns. The clerks all have guns, all the clerks have guns. Some clerks have more than one gun, scratch that, most of the clerks have more than one gun.
DeleteOf all the things they sit around worrying about, armed robbery by anyone but the resurrected James Gang is not one of them.
So what can you use as an alternative?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bitcatcha.com/research/paypal-alternatives/
https://hostingpill.com/paypal-alternatives/
There are a couple of good ones there for personal use. Now if only eBay etc offered a Paypal alternative I'd dump Paypal too.
I just closed my PayPal account. I tried to do the "delete your data" option but it wouldn't do it.
ReplyDeleteFurry / adult content artists have long since had problems with Paypal and naturally the artist channel I just linked this to is blowing up and I'm pretty sure some of the other gallery sites are going to lose their minds too.
ReplyDeleteI may have to make the full jump to Payoneer or something.
- Arc
I always want to help out but closing "my accounts" but back in 1996 I realized it was all more fucked up than Kerodin was so I never bothered to set any up. It's lonely out here in the wilderness.....just the way I like it.
ReplyDeleteSomething something "Contract of Adhesion," something something "Unilateral," something something "Unconscionable."
ReplyDeleteOf course you'd have to have the dosh to fight it, and they'd have to have actually fined you first before you could sue. If you had deep enough pockets to fight it in court, you could afford a custom-built killdozer mit flammenwerfer, and a more satisfying way to seek resolution.
I'd also close the attached bank account and then open another one. I watched in awe at a Wells Fargo branch in San Diego told a man that even though he had indeed canceled the check he wrote, the bank never the less paid it in full even knowing that it had been canceled and there was nothing he could do about it. This took place as I was getting ready to move some money of my own after getting home from a year in the middle east. I decided to close my account on the spot. (My bank had been something else when I left the country but was bought by Wells Fargo while I was away.)
ReplyDeleteI axed paypal a long time ago after someone compromised my account and charged a bunch of crap to a credit card I had linked to the account. It took me a while to get the password changed and I had the folks from PP on a support call for a while. The next night at 3:45 am, the password changed again and the PP folks told me they determined it was me that did it. I cancelled the card and PP on the spot. I have suspicions about who did it and found out later that someone can change your PP password if they know just the last five digits of a credit card associated with the account. I never did figure out what happened to the emails I was supposed to get when the password changed, which PP assured me was sent to my email address of record. Everyone I spoke to was Indian, so I was suspicious.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the heads up Kenny, I’ll be closing my account now as well.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct that you REALLY REALLY should no longer accept paypal. But for the rest of us it's still *fairly* safe to use.
ReplyDeleteDetail that you left out or didn't draw attention to:
1. This policy applies ONLY to "using paypal for" stuff. Sending a crude text to your sister-in-law doesn't involve paypal, so it doesn't fall afoul of this policy. Your sister-in-law using paypal to pay you for a dick pic, and you send her a crude polical meme critical of Biden or democrats would.
2. This policy applies ONLY to money *in their system*. They, according to that policy, will not charge your bank for things, it's limited to claiming money they already have in their hands.
So at least by my reading, using paypal to buy car parts off ebay is still *fairly* safe.
I ditched it long ago, I forget why. Probably because rainbow. BTW you don't need it for ebay any longer. That said, I'm about to kill my ebay account as well. Mostly it's useless.
ReplyDeleteI quit buying off ebay when it was taken over by vendors of China imitations a few years back. It was a great site when individuals like you and me were selling on it, but now when you go on to look for something, the item will have, say a dozen listings and prices, and all of them will be from the same vendor!
DeleteI went to close my paypal account after reading this and the comments associated with it.
ReplyDeleteMy account is for purchasing only, but: because fuck you that's why. You cannot do a fucking thing unless you give them a phone number. Contact us? SORRY, we need a phone number.
So, here I sit wondering if I want to give them MORE fucking information in order to close the damn account.
I guess I'll have to try to call them. Un-fucking-real.
Mr. Mike
PP has always had bent policies and practices...they're also on the anti 2A wagon with ups
ReplyDeleteTPTB are pushing hard to screw everyone into submission...but what they'll actually get will be completely different than they think...get your piano wire boys and girls, and keep your head on a swivel...everything is about to break lose.
https://www.infowars.com/posts/paypal-announces-policy-to-pull-2500-from-users-accounts-if-they-promote-misinformation/
ReplyDeletePosted at Infowars.com
Aaaaand I got word a little bit ago that they backtracked on it.
DeleteLet us know how we can keep your amo stocked...
ReplyDeleteMy mailing address is at the top of my right sidebar, thank you very much.
DeletePaypal says it's sorry for the confusion and never intended to fine people for their political views.
ReplyDeleteThey got their tit in the wringer. lol
https://www.yahoo.com/video/paypal-policy-permits-company-fine-143946902.html
Wisco sent me the same news from a twitter feed about an hour ago. How fucking cool is that?
DeleteSaw Paypal trending this morning and thought of this post , nothing like feedback to turn them around !
DeleteMy account is canceled. Thanks for heads up.
ReplyDeleteI have been hearing good things about Patreon. Don’t know much except from the few I know who use it. An alternative? At least for some transactions maybe.
ReplyDeleteTry Zelle. My bank uses it as well as other banks. Also need to mention PayPal owns Venmo.
ReplyDeleteDoncha just love it when their woke/politically correct bullshit blows up in their face
ReplyDeleteand people vote with their wallets and CANCEL THEM?
Oh the wailing & gnashing of teeth!
They. Never. Learn!
Thank you for the info. Closed.
ReplyDeleteIf you have to close PP Credit as well I had to call 1-844-373-4961.
ReplyDeleteAnd asked for an email confirmation for account closure.
May u live in interesting times.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/10/major-backlash-paypal-now-says-company-will-not-seize-2500-users-spread-misinformation/
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, PayPal can't be trusted. They'll be scheming to find a way to make it happen. PayPal has always scared me a little, seeing as it behaves like a bank but is not held to the same rules as banks.
Also, I noticed the other day when I went to log into my PP account that once I gave them my email, I was sent an SMS to my phone and had only to supply a 6 digit number, and I was logged in. No password required. After investigating and finding out that I CAN'T disable that particular login option, I was more than a little scared.
I've unlinked my credit card (no real inconvenience) and bank account (also fine, I haven't received a PayPal payment in a few years now anyway) and I feel a bit safer now. All I can say about this method of login is that if someone who worked for me had implemented or even suggested it, he or she would be fired on the spot. It turns two factor authentication into basically zero factor authentication and there's no opt out.
Given that people have actually used SIM takeover attacks in order to do stuff as mundane as stealing Instagram accounts, it's hardly a stretch to think someone would do the same to gain access to a PayPal account, and along with it any linked bank accounts or credit cards. PayPal will even helpfully tell whoever's trying to login 5 digits of my phone number.
Paypal: "We're not evil, we're incompetent!"
ReplyDeleteYeah, not suddenly feeling better about you, Paypal.
Just cancelled my personal and business accounts with this not-so-eloquent message:
ReplyDelete"Not interested in doing business with shitbag SJW warriors with atrocious policies that only get retracted when you are called out for being shitbags."
That's basically what I told them when I was finally able to close my account Sunday and they asked if I'd be willing to complete a small survey.
DeleteWirecutter you are the best
DeleteYou are consistently consistent from SC. Also read CFP daily. Thank you for all you do.
Delete