NOT Liberty. See recent stories where Liberty Safe provided a pass code to the feds. Personally, for the cost of a safe, I'd find a local welder who could line a custom cabinet and provide a decent steel lined door, and use a good (round key) door lock. Better looking furniture, and same level of protection with no risk the feds would get free access. Or, hell, BUY a wardrobe at an antique store and retrofit it.
I'm guessing Dano is not an avid reader of current events, either that or he's a Liberty Safe retailer saddled with an inventory he can't move. Or a fed.
Well, not Liberty Safe. That's a given. When I got one for the bedroom it was to have an easy opening safe in case I felt the need to have a gun in my hand at some time during the night. Otherwise, the size, meaning how many weapons and ammo do you need to lock up. And the size of the space where you'll want to put it.
I bought mine years ago too, and don’t really know who makes what. There are probably several “brands” that all come from the same manufacturer that are out there. Just don’t get an electronic lock. And base the fire rating you get on the response time of your fire department.
If I bought a safe, I would want to be the only one with the combination. It turns out the manufacturers keep a master code, and Liberty Safe provided that to the feds just because they asked for it. https://nypost.com/2023/09/07/liberty-safe-under-fire-for-giving-fbi-access-to-alleged-capitol-rioters-firearms/
I too would advocate for a round dial. I have a very good friend who is the proverbial gun nut. Multiple safes filled with a variety of rifles and pistols. His keypad failed on one and it ended up being three weeks before a replacement showed up from the manufacturer. No access to those weapons until the new pad got there. It may be fast but I can open my combo inside of 20 to 30 seconds easy and if you need a gun “right now” and it’s in a safe, you probably weren’t reading the room very well so to speak. As Shooty McBeardface says, it’s important to be armed, especially in your home. As an aside, bolt the thing down, to concrete preferably with large and multiple anchors. Video aplenty of what happens if a determined thief can get your safe, even a “good one”, on its back and has enough time and a descent J bar.
Try Sturdysafe no drywall to steam the contents of your safe if there’s a fire, (they use rock-wool) and they’re made in the USA also I’d get a sargeant and green leaf manual lock not the digital
Amsec is great, also if you get one if their ESL-10 or -20 electric locks and install it yourself (not hard) then you program in the master code. They are the most reliable electric lock on the market. And make sure you know what you program in as the master because if you forget well then you gotta drill.
I bought a used gang-box (Jobsite tool box) for cheap off of craigslist. Not as fire resistant as a safe, but works quite well against unauthorized access.
It isn't just Liberty that I have a problem with. Where my problem lies isn't in the fact that Liberty gave the combo to the Feds. After all, if the Feds want into your safe, they are getting in. Period. No, my problem lies in the fact that a backdoor means of entering the safe exists at all. If there is a backdoor code, you can be sure that at some point, that will be compromised in a data breach. For that reason, I would recommend a mechanical lock. At the same time, you want your safe to have a decent fire rating. I did a series of posts on safes a couple of months ago. After looking at it, there are two that I would recommend: The Champion safe https://areaocho.com/gun-safes/ The Steelwater safe. https://areaocho.com/more-on-safes/
Last time I checked Browning safes were the only ones that were actually UL listed for fire resistance but I have not looked into it for a while. Also UL listing is probably now corrupted just like everything else.
Cannon….try to get a mechanical turn dial…. If you’re stuck with a digital keypad…. your local locksmith can change it for about $300…. If you stick with digital (emp)…. your locksmith (maybe even you)…. can probably change the factory code to another personal code. Ed357
I've been recommended American Security and Gardall. However, the recommendation came from a dealer of American Security and Gardall safes, so take it with the proverbial grain of salt.
Get one with a good security and fire rating. Get a mechanical lock (e.g., S&G) - or be sure you can easily install one to replace the e-lock it comes with. I recently converted a big older Cannon for less than $175 with lock from online wholesaler for entire kit (or Amazon lists them - but check internals before install - I had an issue first go around.) Cannon e-lock safe even had holes drilled and tapped to mount mechanical lock - easy convert. Lots of videos at manufacturers on how to do it. I've heard good things about Liberty physical construction - obviously e-lock is a no-go, but if the box is on sale and you are mechanically inclined (or patient) it is easy enough to convert. I'm watching for a sale to pick one up and convert too.
I had a locksmith open a safe (lost combo) in less than five minutes. Drilled a very small hole below the tumblers, inserted a camera and opened it. They’re gonna get in. Best protection is to hide it if you can.
I have a Winchester model. Don't remember the so called capacity but it is 72 inches tall and weighs 1100 pounds empty. I also traded the manual combination for key operated lock. Now I don't have to remember a combo or worry about a EMP/CME with a electronic lock.
Greg in Idaho Go with Rhino/Bighorn safes out of Caldwell, Idaho. Well built, I think you can still order one without the damn electronic lock. My understanding is an electronic lock can be accessed and operated by someone with a laptop in under 5 minutes. I heard this from a locksmith.... Keep your powder dry, it's getting close. Prepare for power grid disruptions, possibly worse. https://youtu.be/qSn-hC9H-EM?si=dYbufTmnH5_Uyv8p God bless, Ken, One more time!!! Fjb
Don't know where he is, but I found a local manufacturer that also manufactures ATM's. Bear in mind, the fancier the door, the less secure it is, as a general rule. I got top and bottom ATM key locks which are virtually un-pickable. I would never choose an electronic lock. The rock wool is also an excellent idea. Look at the hinges carefully and make sure they can't be easily defeated. Most importantly, bear in mind that a ultra-strong door makes no difference if the top or sides can be peeled like a beer can. I did mine in high-strength steel all the way 'round, and paid a little extra for fire insulation.
Did Liberty really do that? I thinking they did from the comments. I don't have a safe but from a business standpoint. What a dumb fucking thing to do. Right up there with the painted clown in the bud commercials.
I would avoid Cannons at least the lower end models. We have a Cannon at the sportsman's club I belong to. We got it from thru the NRA and have had major lock issues to the point we lost several weekends of our youth club shoots. I personally have a Heritage and like it, but the brand apparently has been sold to a Chinese company...so much for service. The lock is a S&G so a decent locksmith/ vault-smith should be able to service it.
Try to get one that has a UL fire rating and is water resistant. And when you get it, make sure to bolt it to the floor so it can’t be easily carried off
One thing to look at is the fire rating of course, but also look at the door bolts. the cheaper ones only have bolts opposite of the hinges and rely on the hinges to keep the door from being pried open. The better ones have live bolts in both or all four directions. The Cannon I mentioned above only has latch side bolts, while my Heritage has bolts in four directions. Big diameter hardened bolts... Look at the side wall thicknesses too. Thicker is better but heavier.
Costco (and I assume other such stores) from time to time have a sale on gun safes. These are just fire rated and offer minimal protection to someone experienced at getting inside without the combination. But they are adequate for keeping unauthorized people (children) from accessing your guns. Get a safe that holds more guns than you have, or in another few years, you’ll be on the market again.
My second safe was a Cannon from TSC. I waited 'til it was on sale and on top if that I was able to use a 10% off coupon, so I really believe I didn't pay much more for the safe than TSC paid for it. Unfortunately, TSC wised up and quit sending out 10% off coupons. Now they just give you a $10 off coupon every once in a while. I liked the old deal better. Sigh.
As already stated go with the manual combo & if push comes to shove you can switch out the electronic to a manual which any locksmith can do…… BUT, check with your local smith since there are enough used safes from closed / defunct businesses/banks you can get one on the cheap. You may have to clean it up some but……. such a deal!
I have a contract on a house in south east GA that has a safe room on 5 acres of land. That will be my gun and reloading room. The owner just retired from US Marshal service and is moving to Florida. The house was purpose built all brick home. Clumps of small bushes 50 yards from the house and again at 100, 150, and 200 yards. It has a workshop 300 yards from the house that faces the 1/4 mile dog leg driveway. There are a lot of cameras and motion detectors that stay with the house.
No recommendations except to go watch Thelockpickinglawyer channel on youtube to see what NOT to buy and common security design flaws to watch out for.
a) Any decent welder-fabricator can create any size box in any shape you need. Hire a locksmith crew to design it... lots of experiences and opinions. . b) My Grandpa Jack told me about safes: * the stuff you want stolen, keep in the safe. Everything else, the stuff you want to keep, hide and cache.
There is a bottom line of definition of what is/is not a "safe", and what is a residential security container (RSC). This article covers it, note who the author is and what he is selling. However, facts are facts. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-safes-and-residential-security-containers-know-what-youre-really-buying/
It was mentioned in comments to bolt it down. This is very good advice. The more surfaces you can securely attach it to, the better. Concrete floor, a wall (or more).
Have an electronic lock? See: https://youtu.be/3E1TheOsZ1U "Safe lock conversion (digital to mechanical)"
Your best protection is a layered approach. That way your "safe" does not have to be so heavy. Think of an RSC (a quality one) in a secure room, with alarms. Your secure room door should be something substantial. Think 16 Gauge steel in a steel frame (check out the $$$ at your local high end industrial supply [think Grainger's]... these are not cheap).
What we use at work have been "Secureit Fast Box Model 47 Hidden Gun Safe FB-47-01", and sometimes Marvel Universal Weapons Rack (GSA contract# GS-07F-0124Y)... universalweaponracks.com
Here, this guy built a vault room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYbtA8RS0mI He went full autismo on this, give him a look and see what can be done. Great idea to modify to your needs. If you want to go full Bond Villain, check out identiv.com "Hirsch scramblepads". Not cheap.
In the end, you have to assess what your threat model is, and how quickly you may need a firearm. It is a balance. Whatever you do, if you have kids full time, or if you are a grandparent and they come over even occasionally, please lock up your firearms. Putting them in a "locked" room, unsecured is not the solution.
In closing, your local independent locksmith shop may sell used safes and security stuff that you can integrate into your home. Locksmiths are skilled pros, and you get what you pay for.
Supreme safes have a great fire rating. Expensive but so are the firearms you are trying to protect. I've been in a gun store and heard someone moaning about their guns being stolen and when asked they said they didn't have a safe, DUH!
NOT Liberty. See recent stories where Liberty Safe provided a pass code to the feds.
ReplyDeletePersonally, for the cost of a safe, I'd find a local welder who could line a custom cabinet and provide a decent steel lined door, and use a good (round key) door lock. Better looking furniture, and same level of protection with no risk the feds would get free access. Or, hell, BUY a wardrobe at an antique store and retrofit it.
Liberty safes. Made in America backed locally.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing Dano is not an avid reader of current events, either that or he's a Liberty Safe retailer saddled with an inventory he can't move. Or a fed.
DeleteCould also be sarcasm ..
DeleteWell, not Liberty Safe. That's a given.
ReplyDeleteWhen I got one for the bedroom it was to have an easy opening safe in case I felt the need to have a gun in my hand at some time during the night.
Otherwise, the size, meaning how many weapons and ammo do you need to lock up. And the size of the space where you'll want to put it.
And don't forget checking whether the flòor can handle the weight. Unless it's in the garage.
DeleteCannon
ReplyDeletehad a house fire. contents of safe did burn. however Cannon replaced the safe free of charge. the fire rating of gun safes is not very high.
Anything but a Liberty safe.
ReplyDeleteNot a Liberty safe!
ReplyDeleteNOT Liberty...
ReplyDeleteI bought mine years ago too, and don’t really know who makes what. There are probably several “brands” that all come from the same manufacturer that are out there. Just don’t get an electronic lock. And base the fire rating you get on the response time of your fire department.
ReplyDeleteWhat's wrong with an electronic lock (serious question)?
DeleteThe spin dials take significantly longer to open than push button ones, so I had assumed an electronic push button was better than spin dial.
If I bought a safe, I would want to be the only one with the combination. It turns out the manufacturers keep a master code, and Liberty Safe provided that to the feds just because they asked for it.
Deletehttps://nypost.com/2023/09/07/liberty-safe-under-fire-for-giving-fbi-access-to-alleged-capitol-rioters-firearms/
I too would advocate for a round dial. I have a very good friend who is the proverbial gun nut. Multiple safes filled with a variety of rifles and pistols. His keypad failed on one and it ended up being three weeks before a replacement showed up from the manufacturer. No access to those weapons until the new pad got there. It may be fast but I can open my combo inside of 20 to 30 seconds easy and if you need a gun “right now” and it’s in a safe, you probably weren’t reading the room very well so to speak. As Shooty McBeardface says, it’s important to be armed, especially in your home. As an aside, bolt the thing down, to concrete preferably with large and multiple anchors. Video aplenty of what happens if a determined thief can get your safe, even a “good one”, on its back and has enough time and a descent J bar.
DeleteTry Sturdysafe no drywall to steam the contents of your safe if there’s a fire, (they use rock-wool) and they’re made in the USA also I’d get a sargeant and green leaf manual lock not the digital
ReplyDeleteYep, change the lock to sargeant and green leaf. A little pricey, but they also make the locks for government safes.
DeleteForget your combo? Better to know A Good Locksmith.
American Security, but get a mechanical lock not electronic.
ReplyDeleteDitto
DeleteAmsec is great, also if you get one if their ESL-10 or -20 electric locks and install it yourself (not hard) then you program in the master code. They are the most reliable electric lock on the market. And make sure you know what you program in as the master because if you forget well then you gotta drill.
DeleteI bought a used gang-box (Jobsite tool box) for cheap off of craigslist. Not as fire resistant as a safe, but works quite well against unauthorized access.
ReplyDeleteConsider SecureIt
ReplyDeletehttps://www.secureitgunstorage.com/
It isn't just Liberty that I have a problem with. Where my problem lies isn't in the fact that Liberty gave the combo to the Feds. After all, if the Feds want into your safe, they are getting in. Period. No, my problem lies in the fact that a backdoor means of entering the safe exists at all. If there is a backdoor code, you can be sure that at some point, that will be compromised in a data breach. For that reason, I would recommend a mechanical lock.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, you want your safe to have a decent fire rating. I did a series of posts on safes a couple of months ago. After looking at it, there are two that I would recommend:
The Champion safe
https://areaocho.com/gun-safes/
The Steelwater safe.
https://areaocho.com/more-on-safes/
Last time I checked Browning safes were the only ones that were actually UL listed for fire resistance but I have not looked into it for a while. Also UL listing is probably now corrupted just like everything else.
ReplyDeleteCannon….try to get a mechanical turn dial….
ReplyDeleteIf you’re stuck with a digital keypad….
your local locksmith can change it for about $300….
If you stick with digital (emp)….
your locksmith (maybe even you)….
can probably change the factory code to another personal code.
Ed357
I've been recommended American Security and Gardall. However, the recommendation came from a dealer of American Security and Gardall safes, so take it with the proverbial grain of salt.
ReplyDeleteGet one with a good security and fire rating. Get a mechanical lock (e.g., S&G) - or be sure you can easily install one to replace the e-lock it comes with. I recently converted a big older Cannon for less than $175 with lock from online wholesaler for entire kit (or Amazon lists them - but check internals before install - I had an issue first go around.) Cannon e-lock safe even had holes drilled and tapped to mount mechanical lock - easy convert. Lots of videos at manufacturers on how to do it. I've heard good things about Liberty physical construction - obviously e-lock is a no-go, but if the box is on sale and you are mechanically inclined (or patient) it is easy enough to convert. I'm watching for a sale to pick one up and convert too.
ReplyDeletewww.sturdysafe.com
ReplyDeleteYou can customize it any way you want for your needs.
I have a 1964 Coca cola vending machine that quit cooling. The key and lock work. Gut it and put your guns in it
ReplyDeleteI had a locksmith open a safe (lost combo) in less than five minutes. Drilled a very small hole below the tumblers, inserted a camera and opened it. They’re gonna get in. Best protection is to hide it if you can.
ReplyDeleteI have a Winchester model. Don't remember the so called capacity but it is 72 inches tall and weighs 1100 pounds empty. I also traded the manual combination for key operated lock. Now I don't have to remember a combo or worry about a EMP/CME with a electronic lock.
ReplyDeleteGreg in Idaho
ReplyDeleteGo with Rhino/Bighorn safes out of Caldwell, Idaho. Well built, I think you can still order one without the damn electronic lock. My understanding is an electronic lock can be accessed and operated by someone with a laptop in under 5 minutes. I heard this from a locksmith....
Keep your powder dry, it's getting close.
Prepare for power grid disruptions, possibly worse.
https://youtu.be/qSn-hC9H-EM?si=dYbufTmnH5_Uyv8p
God bless, Ken,
One more time!!!
Fjb
Fort Knox Safes
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Rock solid heavy gauge steel, fire rated 45 minutes at 1800F. I have a half ton Fort Knox safe in the basement.
DeleteI second Michael's comment. I also have one in the garage bolted to the concrete.
DeleteDon't know where he is, but I found a local manufacturer that also manufactures ATM's. Bear in mind, the fancier the door, the less secure it is, as a general rule. I got top and bottom ATM key locks which are virtually un-pickable. I would never choose an electronic lock. The rock wool is also an excellent idea. Look at the hinges carefully and make sure they can't be easily defeated. Most importantly, bear in mind that a ultra-strong door makes no difference if the top or sides can be peeled like a beer can. I did mine in high-strength steel all the way 'round, and paid a little extra for fire insulation.
ReplyDeleteDid Liberty really do that? I thinking they did from the comments. I don't have a safe but from a business standpoint. What a dumb fucking thing to do. Right up there with the painted clown in the bud commercials.
ReplyDeleteYes, they did. I put up a post when they did it.
DeleteIf money is no object, from research I've done, Graffunder. Not cheap.
ReplyDeleteI've heard good things about Brown safe co.
ReplyDeleteDoes liberty make safes under other names?
Might be something to look into
I would avoid Cannons at least the lower end models. We have a Cannon at the sportsman's club I belong to. We got it from thru the NRA and have had major lock issues to the point we lost several weekends of our youth club shoots. I personally have a Heritage and like it, but the brand apparently has been sold to a Chinese company...so much for service. The lock is a S&G so a decent locksmith/ vault-smith should be able to service it.
ReplyDeleteAmerican rebel makes excellent safes, in Tennessee. They also make a lot of other 2A and gun related products.
ReplyDeleteWhatever you get make sure it has a manual locking system.... Make the fuckers work to get inside..
ReplyDeleteJD
Hidden safes, Inc., Memphis, Tennessee. They will design and hide anything you want.
ReplyDeleteTry to get one that has a UL fire rating and is water resistant. And when you get it, make sure to bolt it to the floor so it can’t be easily carried off
ReplyDeleteOne thing to look at is the fire rating of course, but also look at the door bolts. the cheaper ones only have bolts opposite of the hinges and rely on the hinges to keep the door from being pried open. The better ones have live bolts in both or all four directions. The Cannon I mentioned above only has latch side bolts, while my Heritage has bolts in four directions. Big diameter hardened bolts...
ReplyDeleteLook at the side wall thicknesses too. Thicker is better but heavier.
Costco (and I assume other such stores) from time to time have a sale on gun safes. These are just fire rated and offer minimal protection to someone experienced at getting inside without the combination. But they are adequate for keeping unauthorized people (children) from accessing your guns. Get a safe that holds more guns than you have, or in another few years, you’ll be on the market again.
ReplyDeleteMy second safe was a Cannon from TSC. I waited 'til it was on sale and on top if that I was able to use a 10% off coupon, so I really believe I didn't pay much more for the safe than TSC paid for it.
DeleteUnfortunately, TSC wised up and quit sending out 10% off coupons. Now they just give you a $10 off coupon every once in a while. I liked the old deal better. Sigh.
Gettysburg from Rural King is what I have and I like it. Pretty good deal too.
ReplyDeleteGet a used Liberty (they are dirt cheap now, some $2-3 grand off new) and then pay a locksmith $400-500 to change out the lock set.
ReplyDeleteAs already stated go with the manual combo & if push comes to shove you can switch out the electronic to a manual which any locksmith can do…… BUT, check with your local smith since there are enough used safes from closed / defunct businesses/banks you can get one on the cheap. You may have to clean it up some but……. such a deal!
ReplyDeleteBear safe our of OKC.
ReplyDeleteCan’t speak to how good they are, but Hornady also has a variety of safes & lock boxes. Anybody here have one? (RickeyG)
ReplyDeleteI went with a vault door option instead of a safe converting what was the laundry room in the basement to a small secure room.
ReplyDeleteKlaus
I have a contract on a house in south east GA that has a safe room on 5 acres of land. That will be my gun and reloading room. The owner just retired from US Marshal service and is moving to Florida. The house was purpose built all brick home. Clumps of small bushes 50 yards from the house and again at 100, 150, and 200 yards. It has a workshop 300 yards from the house that faces the 1/4 mile dog leg driveway. There are a lot of cameras and motion detectors that stay with the house.
DeleteSturdy Safe. (https://www.sturdysafe.com/) American made. Good quality and lots of options. Manual dial. I didn't get mine with fireproofing.
ReplyDeleteNo recommendations except to go watch Thelockpickinglawyer channel on youtube to see what NOT to buy and common security design flaws to watch out for.
ReplyDeletea)
ReplyDeleteAny decent welder-fabricator can create any size box in any shape you need.
Hire a locksmith crew to design it... lots of experiences and opinions.
.
b)
My Grandpa Jack told me about safes:
* the stuff you want stolen, keep in the safe.
Everything else, the stuff you want to keep, hide and cache.
There is a bottom line of definition of what is/is not a "safe", and what is a residential security container (RSC). This article covers it, note who the author is and what he is selling. However, facts are facts.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-safes-and-residential-security-containers-know-what-youre-really-buying/
It was mentioned in comments to bolt it down. This is very good advice. The more surfaces you can securely attach it to, the better. Concrete floor, a wall (or more).
Have an electronic lock? See: https://youtu.be/3E1TheOsZ1U "Safe lock conversion (digital to mechanical)"
Your best protection is a layered approach. That way your "safe" does not have to be so heavy. Think of an RSC (a quality one) in a secure room, with alarms. Your secure room door should be something substantial. Think 16 Gauge steel in a steel frame (check out the $$$ at your local high end industrial supply [think Grainger's]... these are not cheap).
What we use at work have been "Secureit Fast Box Model 47 Hidden Gun Safe FB-47-01", and sometimes Marvel Universal Weapons Rack (GSA contract# GS-07F-0124Y)... universalweaponracks.com
Here, this guy built a vault room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYbtA8RS0mI He went full autismo on this, give him a look and see what can be done. Great idea to modify to your needs. If you want to go full Bond Villain, check out identiv.com "Hirsch scramblepads". Not cheap.
In the end, you have to assess what your threat model is, and how quickly you may need a firearm. It is a balance. Whatever you do, if you have kids full time, or if you are a grandparent and they come over even occasionally, please lock up your firearms. Putting them in a "locked" room, unsecured is not the solution.
In closing, your local independent locksmith shop may sell used safes and security stuff that you can integrate into your home. Locksmiths are skilled pros, and you get what you pay for.
Supreme safes have a great fire rating. Expensive but so are the firearms you are trying to protect. I've been in a gun store and heard someone moaning about their guns being stolen and when asked they said they didn't have a safe, DUH!
ReplyDelete