The Department of Energy estimates that, under the new rules, 50 percent of newly manufactured electric storage water heaters will utilize heat pump technology to be in compliance. The standards go into effect beginning in 2029.
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And the heat pump systems just pull heat out of the rest of the house. They can be very efficient but you still have to pay the piper by heating something somewhere. With the new mandates it is electrical heat too so why have a compressor system adding to the load.
ReplyDeleteWe dealt with this recently and went back to tried, true, reliable, and inexpensive direct heating for a new water heater.
I've had a geothermal system for 17 years. It heats my water with the waste heat. It's been very efficient. It just gave up the ghost though. New system looks to be comparable to any of the new offerings now that the EPA is screwing us without vaseline.
DeleteIt's time to shut down the EPA and a few others.
A gas fired water heater has no moving parts and is inherently reliable for the next 15 years, and its function is transparent to the homeowner, . The same can be said of a resistance element heater. But a heat pump will probably have a mean time between failure of 3-5 years. Spending time and inconvenience of fixing the water heater far outweighs any energy savings. And even if it is 5 x as efficient as a gas or electric resistance heater, a gas heater will be cheaper to run.
ReplyDeleteGas service (and so heaters and stoves) is banned in new construction, so you are stuck with a heat pump or an induction cooktop there too.
Deletei was a HVAC service tech for 30 years before i retired and i can tell you that any heat pump system's are terribly inefficient but quit costly to maintain, they don't work when its over 80 deg, or when when when it's under 40 deg. under 40 and the electric heat strips come on, no energy saved there, it almost doubles. the compressor and the electric heat strips are BOTH are running at the same time.
Deletethey were all the rage to have here in the deep south 30 years ago through sales tactics, no more. many homeowners were taken to the cleaners on that deal, mostly on new FHA homes in the late 70 and 80's.
open the covers on one that has been installed 8+ years and look at the hammer marks on the reversing valves where tech's have been trying to unstick the valves. i have seen many. nat. gas is the most economical way to power your home and will work when the power goes out.
good luck all, scout
@Scout,
DeleteThat hasn't been my experience. We installed a Mr. Cool heat pump system with air handler (forced air system) at my house a few years ago. Those systems are nice because the system and lines are pre-charged so you don't need an HVAC guy if you are competent with installation/wiring. The only down side is you have to choose from limited line lengths. If I recall correctly, it cost about $6500.00 all in (all installation was done by me and Brother in Law). My ROI calculations showed it would be paid for in 3 years. That gave me heat pump heat and central air. No more "window rattlers" and no more heating oil.
I got the auxiliary heater (toaster) as you are correct and the system does not work as well at low temps. However, the only day so far that I had an issue it was -20F. At that temp, I turned on the auxiliary heat and the system couldn't quite keep up, and was not reaching the targeted temp. I put a very small space heater in the living room for a few hours and that helped just enough. I have been through two winters in the northeast and that is the only time that I have needed the auxiliary heat.
My experience has been positive. I do have other sources of heat just in case. Two electric space heaters as well as a much larger kerosene heater. I've needed the space heater once as mentioned above. Perhaps the tech is better than it was when you were dealing with it. I also think .gov is doing everyone a disservice by mandating anything. You tell me what I "need" to do and my first reaction is going to be to tell you to go fuck yourself. That's too bad as some of this new tech is actually good.
Chewie
One thing to look out for is what you are paying for electricity. I am in a town with a municipal electric company and my rates have been very stable. I have heard horror stories about rates in larger towns that are using National Grid for example. Of course if electricity is going up, heating oil is probably doing the same thing.
Well, I'll be damned. I had no idea these existed. Why? I don't believe they can be more efficient than 2 coils and a Little Gray Box that turns off the coils for 12 or so hours a day. Besides, why make water heaters more complicated? I have enough shit that breaks around my house!
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear that the quality has gone out of these products and these companies. Thermal transfer works.
ReplyDeleteThermal transfer only works in your mind. In actuality, the water STILL needs to be heated by a COAL FIRED POWER PLANT to get from 40deg to 110+/- that you need for regular hot water service. This heat pump boolsheet has been around for 30-40 years and STILL doesn't work as advertised and NEVER WILL. It's the same as having electric heat to heat your house, the highest expense heating system ever devised by at least 50% compared to oil or gas.
DeleteOh, you might try using a handle so we know where this crap came from. When you don't use a handle, some might suspect you're a .gov troll feeding the narrative.
Nemo
No disagreement about NG vs Electric; however, some areas don't have NG. Propane is a stinky piss poor, expensive substitute.
DeleteI have a heat pump on my house furnace. It blew cold air and froze in winter. I now run on emergency heat (no heat pump). I am happy now. Whoever came up with the water heater heat pump is freakin brain dead.
ReplyDeleteEver notice how all this "highly efficient" crap ALWAYS cost 4 to 5 times what it's replacing. So when does the "savings" kick in?
ReplyDeleteHa. That's where they really fuck you. There are no savings. Ever. And with the cost of electric energy set up go up at an ever increasing clip, you won't even be able to buy lube for the screwing they're giving you.
DeleteMy chinese brother in law house has hot water via heat pump. It takes A LONG TIME to recover (heat a cold tank up to temperature). So if you have several people use the shower and the hot water runs out, good luck. Several hours until it’s hot again.
ReplyDeleteHeat pump water heaters are an incredibly bad idea. Already been tried. Inefficient as hell. Electric company loves them.
ReplyDeleteHow the hell did the government get this powerful?
ReplyDeleteAll this bullshit about "global warming" and "climate change" is designed to get the gov's hand in our pockets even deeper. Did I say it's bullshit? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
ReplyDeleteIn the house before last where we lived for thirty years, we replaced our seventeen year old Carrier system which had normal A/C and a resistance furnace with a heat pump because the power company was offering a deal and there was no gas in the subdivision. The heat pump paid for itself over the resistance furnace but it didn't heat worth a damn (it's too cold even in Atlanta) and the A/C didn't dehumidify. We replaced that with another heat pump, same results, but then we moved to a gas house in Tennessee. Wow! What a revelation. Now we're back in Georgia and have a gas furnace but otherwise electric. When our gas water heater started leaking, the tech couldn't find another gas unit which would fit in the crawl space. I don't mind an electric water heater but don't say Heat Pump to me.
ReplyDeleteI guess I missed this part in the U. S. Constitution about the role of federal government.
ReplyDeleteCPO Greg