Sounds like my cousin Bruce. Two Masters degrees in Industrial Psychology who could tell you everything you wanted to know about any subject that you hadn't asked him about. Relatives thought so highly of him they carried at family gatherings just in case the opportunity arose to soot the Em-Effer.
Happens all the time. To succeed almost always requires ‘people skills’ that are often weak or even absent in the super intelligent. It is truly a blessed individual that has both kind of ‘smarts’ and has at least a modicum of good looks and/or charisma. I almost feel sorry for the geniuses that have other shortcomings preventing them from being successful. Almost.
Anon - I agree completely. I'm going to quote my friend James's response on his blog when someone asked him about IQ. (He claims he doesn't want more readers for some reason, so no linky.) I think James's schema is one of the most practical and best descriptions of intelligence I have read. Pretty damned good for a brain-damaged Baltimoron. Take it away, James:
the following are the intelligence ranges I have used myself, in dealing with humans and are based on Baltimore Street Wisdom.
SMARTASS-DUMBASS SCALE 1. Dog-shit dumb, in other words retarded and rarely very dangerous 2. Low Cunning, stupid people who blatantly seek advantage and generally betray their intent through hesitation and inquisitive staring, usually violent 3. Cunning, stupid people who are just smart enough to concoct capers and not smart enough to positively interact with intelligent folks, usually violent 4. Dumbass, your normal range human who believes what they see on the news, never read a book other than a religious text after graduation from the idiot academy and provide politicians with their mind chattel and comprise most of the American consumer population, sometimes violent 5. Smartass, guys like Big Ron, me, good cops, who can excel at what they put their mind to and are able to deal effectively with those below them on the smartass-dumbass matrix and also those above. In other words, this is the guy that can understand the architect’s blue prints and translate it to the dumbass with the hammer in his hand, violent as often as not. 6. Smart motherfucker, a guy that is too smart to communicate effectively with dumbasses and below and also tends to have a lot of social tension within, because they are usually smart enough as children to imbibe a strong ideological sense of right and wrong and good and bad, which tends to result in a deluded misunderstanding of levels 2-4 and often leaves them to become the naïve prey to the more practical smartass. Understanding of power dynamics is usually poor in this group. These people are best suited to being technical specialists and are renowned for inflexible managerial behaviors when occupying positions of power at any level of a hierarchy. I would say most of my readers fall into this range, generally being smarter than I am and reading the blog as part of their efforts at playing catchup when it comes to understanding and adapting to increasingly troubling social dynamics, rarely violent 7. Scary smart people basically have a hard time relating to others on the scale and are generally dependent on superior smartasses and flexible smart motherfuckers, to help them interact with the world and also to help the world fathom their perspective, rarely violent.
Note: Dumbasses and below become less intelligent as they group up and, with strong wills and passions prevailing over thought, while smartasses and above usually have the capacity to form a problem-solving group which exceeds the capacity of the smartest individual, unless doctrine and ideology make this impossible, in which case the group of [usually smart motherfuckers] will devolve in intelligence, just like dumbasses and in fact become a functional conclave of dumbasses.
My oldest son had a childhood friend who took this path and ended with several advanced degrees while still in his teens. Ended up as a very serious young man but profoundly sad during his twenties. Doing better now in his thirties. My second son had this path available to him as he was accepted into several university programs as a 12 year old, but I kept him in high school until he was 17 just for the socialization. He ended up having a great high school career in athletics, music, and academic competitions, and advanced tested out of most of his university basic requirements, graduating with multiple degrees at age twenty. Is now a recognized expert in his field and, before Covid, was traveling the world solving problems for large piles of money. Is known for being able to talk to people of all cultures and economic strata, and I like to take credit for that for the extra time in high school gaining confidence about who he was and being validated by his friends.
“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan, ‘press on’ has solved, and always will solve, the problems of the human race.” – Calvin Coolidge
I once had a cranky old pathologist explain to me why so many surgeons are a**holes. He said they go through school as whiz kids, acing every test but never learning how to interact with anyone not at their level, and in med school their skill and coordination makes them geniuses with their hands. Then he said "But if anyone has to cut on me, give me one of those a**holes!"
With all due respect to that pathologist, I disagree. Surgeons are not particularly all that smart. Sure, they're above average, but it's hardly genius level. Nor are they (as a group) all that coordinated necessarily (I have seen some shit...). The general common traits of surgeons are aggressive self-confidence; the ability to both give and take huge amounts of hierarchical (rank) bullshit; and finally, the stubbornness to survive a 5+ year training program in such an environment. The rank-and-hierarchy bullshit part is probably just part of their culture; but the aggressive self-confidence is actually needed. I mean, you have to have a huge ego to say to yourself, "I am going to cut this sick human being open with an X-acto knife, and by doing so, I am going to fucking fix him." So, surgeons are often assholes in part because they kind of need that sort of ego to do their jobs, and because the culture in Departments of Surgery let them get away with it.
That said, I deal with a lot of cardiac surgeons, and (outside of the OR) they are actually quite polite and respectful, so long as: a) you demonstrate that know YOUR stuff (and don't screw them around); b) you show them reciprocal respect.
The most rude and condescending medical people (as a group) that I've had to endure have been Epidemiology and Public Health people. Of course there are exceptions, but my God, there are a lot of nasty, self-righteous, condescending assholes in Epi/PH. I don't keep a list, but if I did, there'd be a couple of asshole Professors from Leeds and Manchester (UK) at the top of that document. A man has a right to be an asshole with stupid opinions, but I object to those assholes having power over me (and those two I'm thinking of are senior advisors to the NHS with influence on public policy, so yeah, they DO have power over people, even if it's not me personally.)
Surgeons remind me of the confident fuckers that fly passenger aircraft... "fuck, I can do this, let's go." As evidenced by Sullenberger, when certain shit happens, I want that old white motherfucker at the wheel
interesting fellow... walked away from the mentalist circus and focused on family and friends "Society should not judge anyone with unilateral standards. Everyone has different learning levels, hopes, talents, and dreams, and we should respect that. People always try to be somebody special by neglecting their ordinary happiness." -Kim Ung-Yong Now that is plain spoken wisdom. good on him.
Sounds like my cousin Bruce. Two Masters degrees in Industrial Psychology who could tell you everything you wanted to know about any subject that you hadn't asked him about. Relatives thought so highly of him they carried at family gatherings just in case the opportunity arose to soot the Em-Effer.
ReplyDeleteBy the age of 20, he had stolen top secret information China...
ReplyDeleteExcept his name is Korean...
Delete"Except his name is Korean..."
DeleteAlger Hiss isn't a Russian name, but....
Gee, Asian. Who woulda thunk?
ReplyDeleteThese days however he would not be accepted at major colleges purely because of the color of his skin.
ReplyDeleteDonald Trump was doing something about that, until Joe Biden killed the lawsuit against Yale...
DeleteI kept waiting for the "and he was the first person to use mathematical formulas to show that Epstein didn't kill himself."
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that having the highest IQ did not help him amount to anything above us dummies
ReplyDeleteHappens all the time. To succeed almost always requires ‘people skills’ that are often weak or even absent in the super intelligent. It is truly a blessed individual that has both kind of ‘smarts’ and has at least a modicum of good looks and/or charisma. I almost feel sorry for the geniuses that have other shortcomings preventing them from being successful. Almost.
DeleteAnon - I agree completely. I'm going to quote my friend James's response on his blog when someone asked him about IQ. (He claims he doesn't want more readers for some reason, so no linky.) I think James's schema is one of the most practical and best descriptions of intelligence I have read. Pretty damned good for a brain-damaged Baltimoron. Take it away, James:
Deletethe following are the intelligence ranges I have used myself, in dealing with humans and are based on Baltimore Street Wisdom.
SMARTASS-DUMBASS SCALE
1. Dog-shit dumb, in other words retarded and rarely very dangerous
2. Low Cunning, stupid people who blatantly seek advantage and generally betray their intent through hesitation and inquisitive staring, usually violent
3. Cunning, stupid people who are just smart enough to concoct capers and not smart enough to positively interact with intelligent folks, usually violent
4. Dumbass, your normal range human who believes what they see on the news, never read a book other than a religious text after graduation from the idiot academy and provide politicians with their mind chattel and comprise most of the American consumer population, sometimes violent
5. Smartass, guys like Big Ron, me, good cops, who can excel at what they put their mind to and are able to deal effectively with those below them on the smartass-dumbass matrix and also those above. In other words, this is the guy that can understand the architect’s blue prints and translate it to the dumbass with the hammer in his hand, violent as often as not.
6. Smart motherfucker, a guy that is too smart to communicate effectively with dumbasses and below and also tends to have a lot of social tension within, because they are usually smart enough as children to imbibe a strong ideological sense of right and wrong and good and bad, which tends to result in a deluded misunderstanding of levels 2-4 and often leaves them to become the naïve prey to the more practical smartass. Understanding of power dynamics is usually poor in this group. These people are best suited to being technical specialists and are renowned for inflexible managerial behaviors when occupying positions of power at any level of a hierarchy. I would say most of my readers fall into this range, generally being smarter than I am and reading the blog as part of their efforts at playing catchup when it comes to understanding and adapting to increasingly troubling social dynamics, rarely violent
7. Scary smart people basically have a hard time relating to others on the scale and are generally dependent on superior smartasses and flexible smart motherfuckers, to help them interact with the world and also to help the world fathom their perspective, rarely violent.
Note: Dumbasses and below become less intelligent as they group up and, with strong wills and passions prevailing over thought, while smartasses and above usually have the capacity to form a problem-solving group which exceeds the capacity of the smartest individual, unless doctrine and ideology make this impossible, in which case the group of [usually smart motherfuckers] will devolve in intelligence, just like dumbasses and in fact become a functional conclave of dumbasses.
Thanks, Mike C, I'll give his blog a look now and then, partly just to piss him off.
DeleteQuite interesting.
DeleteBut does he know that you can turn a left hand thread nut over and screw it on a right hand thread bolt
ReplyDeleteNo you can't unless you turn it sideways and hold your mouth just so-so.
DeleteWhen he was in school, it was considered a bad sign to see him look at the test and say...."Oh shit!"....
ReplyDeleteMy oldest son had a childhood friend who took this path and ended with several advanced degrees while still in his teens. Ended up as a very serious young man but profoundly sad during his twenties. Doing better now in his thirties.
ReplyDeleteMy second son had this path available to him as he was accepted into several university programs as a 12 year old, but I kept him in high school until he was 17 just for the socialization. He ended up having a great high school career in athletics, music, and academic competitions, and advanced tested out of most of his university basic requirements, graduating with multiple degrees at age twenty. Is now a recognized expert in his field and, before Covid, was traveling the world solving problems for large piles of money. Is known for being able to talk to people of all cultures and economic strata, and I like to take credit for that for the extra time in high school gaining confidence about who he was and being validated by his friends.
Good on ya
Delete"I kept him in high school until he was 17 just for the socialization"
DeleteAbsolutely the correct thing to do. If only more parents of smart kids had good sense like you....
.... and with all that still doesn't have an F'in clue what's really going on in the world nor how to do basic plumbing repairs.
ReplyDeleteAnd married a millionaire supermodel who owns a gun store and fishing boat.
ReplyDeleteHe's not the top IQ recorded. There's at least 5 or six people ahead of him. The first one that comes to mind is Marilyn Vos Savant.
ReplyDeleteGood on him. There's a reason Harvard recruiters never called my parents.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan, ‘press on’ has solved, and always will solve, the problems of the human race.” – Calvin Coolidge
I once had a cranky old pathologist explain to me why so many surgeons are a**holes. He said they go through school as whiz kids, acing every test but never learning how to interact with anyone not at their level, and in med school their skill and coordination makes them geniuses with their hands. Then he said "But if anyone has to cut on me, give me one of those a**holes!"
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect to that pathologist, I disagree. Surgeons are not particularly all that smart. Sure, they're above average, but it's hardly genius level. Nor are they (as a group) all that coordinated necessarily (I have seen some shit...). The general common traits of surgeons are aggressive self-confidence; the ability to both give and take huge amounts of hierarchical (rank) bullshit; and finally, the stubbornness to survive a 5+ year training program in such an environment. The rank-and-hierarchy bullshit part is probably just part of their culture; but the aggressive self-confidence is actually needed. I mean, you have to have a huge ego to say to yourself, "I am going to cut this sick human being open with an X-acto knife, and by doing so, I am going to fucking fix him." So, surgeons are often assholes in part because they kind of need that sort of ego to do their jobs, and because the culture in Departments of Surgery let them get away with it.
DeleteThat said, I deal with a lot of cardiac surgeons, and (outside of the OR) they are actually quite polite and respectful, so long as: a) you demonstrate that know YOUR stuff (and don't screw them around); b) you show them reciprocal respect.
The most rude and condescending medical people (as a group) that I've had to endure have been Epidemiology and Public Health people. Of course there are exceptions, but my God, there are a lot of nasty, self-righteous, condescending assholes in Epi/PH. I don't keep a list, but if I did, there'd be a couple of asshole Professors from Leeds and Manchester (UK) at the top of that document. A man has a right to be an asshole with stupid opinions, but I object to those assholes having power over me (and those two I'm thinking of are senior advisors to the NHS with influence on public policy, so yeah, they DO have power over people, even if it's not me personally.)
Surgeons remind me of the confident fuckers that fly passenger aircraft... "fuck, I can do this, let's go." As evidenced by Sullenberger, when certain shit happens, I want that old white motherfucker at the wheel
Deleteinteresting fellow... walked away from the mentalist circus and focused on family and friends
ReplyDelete"Society should not judge anyone with unilateral standards. Everyone has different learning levels, hopes, talents, and dreams, and we should respect that. People always try to be somebody special by neglecting their ordinary happiness." -Kim Ung-Yong Now that is plain spoken wisdom. good on him.
Still not fit to carry John von Neumann's jockstrap.
ReplyDelete