One of the biggest rail unions rejected a deal Monday, joining three others that have failed to approve contracts over concerns about demanding schedules and the lack of paid sick time.
That raises the risk of a strike, which could start as soon as Dec. 9 under a deadline that was pushed back Tuesday.
It wouldn’t take long for the effects of a rail strike to trickle through the economy. Many businesses only have a few days’ worth of raw materials and space for finished goods. Makers of food, fuel, cars and chemicals would all feel the squeeze, as would their customers.
On FOX (OK, I know FOX) they had up what the Union would get under the new contract, very big raises. It also showed that the AVERAGE Union Rail Worker salary was 160K.
ReplyDeleteDo you make that much?
Can you operate a locomotive? Can you maintain or repair one? Can you operate the equipment and storage facilities needed for the hazardous materials that railroads transport? Can you operate and/or maintain the equipment to lay and maintain tracks? Can you safely and efficiently route rail traffic? Pay scales are usually in line with skills which is why the cashiers at Walmart aren't making $100k a year.
DeleteAnd I don't believe everything I hear on FOX. Hell, they may have included the railroad executive's pay into that 'average' for all we know and I'm pretty sure that even they can't do the things I listed.
Oo-rah, Mr. WC.
Deletelast I heard the checkers at Walmart were asking $100k/hour - living wage, y'know; mebbe equity, too.
DeleteI work in chemical manufacturing. You have to remember, the technician (or operator) has a base pay determined by hourly wage and 2080 hrs. But that's not what they take home. Many of them work 12 hr shift, so the first 8 hrs are at base and the remaining 4 are at time-and-a-half. Then most operators work at least 10% overtime, sometimes 20% or more. All of that is at time-and-a-half. So "base pay" is typically around $50k a year while most operators make $100k or more per year. But they earn it with multiple 60+ hr weeks. In addition to all the things WC listed above, remember that the 160k probably involves 30+% overtime pay too.
DeleteYes
DeleteEveryone will get what they want, except the taxpayers. They will be raped.
ReplyDeleteInteresting in that the only comments that are coming out of the WH are either from Biden or KJP clarifying a Biden comment, yet not one word from the "Transportation Secretary".
ReplyDelete- WDS
The "Transportation Secretary" is too busy studying about inherently racist bridge clearance heights.
Delete160k is bs
ReplyDeleteYou're assuming that the annual $160k is for a 40 hour work week and it's my understanding that they don't work 40 hour weeks, more like 60, 70 or more hours a week, week in and week out.
DeleteWhen you take a wage that is in line with their skill level and add in time and a half and double time, those numbers add up.
Sorry WC, I was replying to the Anon. above who claimed the average was 160k a year. I am a locomotive engineer - I know we don't make that much. I, with 17 years seniority, am lucky enough to bid to an assignment where I am *only* required to work around 50 hours per week average. About 200 hours per month. That's not counting the 200+ hours per month sitting in a hotel room. I am top pay rate and I can break $110k in a year if I never take any time off. And that means not even taking vacations - since they pay less than if I work.
DeleteI work for a large class 1 railroad and get paid better than those who work at smaller railroads. So my pay is above the median. I just don't think it's even possible, at our pay rates and with the federal working hours limits in place, for a transportation railroad worker to even make $160k in a year.
Yeah, we make a decent wage. But we work long, weird hours away from our family for it. And it's not exorbitant. It's hard to compare directly because we aren't paid on a per hour basis. We get paid what's called a 'trip rate' based upon the miles of the run or route we are working. Longer runs get higher miles, get paid more. But, higher miles go onto overtime at later periods - if at all. My current route doesn't get overtime until I've worked 11 hours and 54 minutes. As best I can do the math to make it comparative to a regular job, my current pay rate is around $31/hr.
And as I just went to the dept. of labor website to verify - that's pretty close. They say it's $35. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes534011.htm
Oh, okay. Sometimes it's hard for me to keep conversations and readers straight. I thought you were saying the $160k wage was outrageous.
DeleteConsidering my old warehouse new hire wage is nearing 25 bucks an hour for a freaking order selector, I don't consider $35 an hour for an engineer to be overpaid.
Not to worry. The Choo choos will continue to roll. Ray Ban Joe is talking to "Both Sides" at the White House so we can be assured McConnell & McCarthy will attend on all fours with Schumer and Pelosi holding the leashes.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just the U.S. but overseas as well. I live right by the Norfolk Southern Rail line. Everyday coal cars roll by. It's going to get that much colder in Europe when they stop.
ReplyDeleteThis strike will get pushed into next year so all of biden handlers problems can be blamed on the gop house.
ReplyDeleteBut Biden already fixed this, I remember big announcements telling us so.
ReplyDeleteOh, never mind he just lied to get votes!
190,000. That was the limit when I was loading out grain cars. X100 and that is a lot of trucks.
ReplyDeleteI would guess the 160k is more than workers in the average. Had a neighbor who worked the rail road. He had to drive 150 miles to get to where his train was. Then get on it and ride it over his route.
It is a hard life and I could do most or all of it, but would not. Working on computers paid as well, had better hours, and did not have the risk of death.
They go on strike and trucks will be next.
Most of the dedicated trucking companies aren't union and there's damned few independent truckers left. Not only that, but a lot if not most of the grocery stores and supermarkets have their own fleets.
DeleteScrew it.
ReplyDeleteA careful search of the issues isn't money and benefits. It is quality of life. What good is money if you get called the day your kid graduates high school and you must go in or risk being fired? How many of you bitching about their pay have ever gotten your hands dirty at -20°? It is hard and dangerous work.
ReplyDeleteA careful search? My readers? Hell, most of them don't even read the previous comments before throwing their two cents in.
DeleteI can get a reader asking "What is #7 about?" when asking about a meme, and I'll explain it. Twenty minutes later, somebody will pop up with the same question about the same meme. I'll explain it again. Twenty minutes later....
I had to do some looking to find out that the issue is quality of life, most of what I read only talk about how much money is on the table but don't mention why a union is turning that down.
DeleteThere is more to life than money, yes money is important but it's not everything.
WSF, that kind of talk don't wash. You talk as if one is indentured to the job. Apparently 'hard and dangerous at -20' is insufficient to sway people off the job.
DeleteTry again.
Yes, I have worked in minus temps at dangerous work, greatly taxing the body. Commercial fishing, boopie.
Then later, in home building.
Lots of folks don't need a boss to tell them to climb out of bed.
Also, I believe this pay jump would be over five years. The unions are basically just looking for protection from Bidinflation.
DeleteDon in Oregon
Something bad is going to go down, the rail strike is just a cover.
ReplyDeleteDaryl
Correct, sir
DeleteOrganized crime will never be defeated as long as unions exist.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading all the replies, as usual, I am very impressed with our host's patience, perspective, wisdom and knowledge. Not bad for a guy that sports a neck tattoo. :P
ReplyDeleteYes Mr. Lane, I had to add the jab you nailed me on years ago. :P
It's cool, I manage to nail a couple people a year over my neck tattoo.
DeleteThe government always intervenes in rail strikes to end them quickly. 30 years ago I was an intern with Union Pacific in DC. A rail strike started and you wouldn’t believe what gets set into motion the minute it happens.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry. Jackass Joe is working to get Hunter installed on the board of Lionel...
ReplyDeleteMac, that is funny. Hilariously funny.
DeleteAnd I do miss the old times.
How is that going to work, the democrats rapping the union hand that feeds them? The only face saving Edict they could hope for Now is "Owners will give them what they ask for. We'll work out the details how to unring the bell later." Since Warren is a major contributor also, Joe's gonna piss off both sides of the table.
ReplyDeleteIt's already having an effect. Grain shipments are not being loaded for fear of being sidelined somewhere. If they don't put it on a train, they at least have a slim chance to find a truck. Once it's on the rail, they can't get it unloaded until the stoppage is over.
We've already had 2-3 weeks of less than adequate supply. & cold weather is moving in, which means the animals need more calories too.
If the same tactic is applied to Cascade rail as what they are saying for the Interstate (Sucks to be you, we don't have enough plow drivers, so we're just closing the road), we're screwed.
Jerry
Buffett wouldn't allow a strike. Look at his rail interests, and consider his political weight.
ReplyDeleteThey cannot strike unless they are released by a PEB, if they do strike illegally, then the national guard comes to their house to collect them for work, unless they quit. Read the Railway Labor Act, pay particular attn to the first paragraph.
ReplyDeleteAs others, including our great host have said, it is not about the money, the unions want better time off conditions.
ReplyDeleteHow many of you know railroad workers? Most of them are basically on-call 24\7\365. My best friend quite often could barely get a round of golf in when he was several positions out little alone plan anything with family that most of us would consider routine.
Heck even the barge operators and other seamen get semi-regular shifts.
Most of the work is hard and in all kinds of weather, yes not unlike construction or other jobs, but there is no calling out or waiting until the weather gets better, the trains must run.
And as far as trucks, besides other points already mentioned, a lot of truck traffic travels over...wait for it...the railroads.
All Biden did was push this out to after the elections which is the best any politician hopes to do...keep kicking it down the road until their job is secure and the idiot public is once again fooled.
The railroad companies have been working to cut crews down for decades and a typical train only has a two or maybe a three man crew. The trains are getting longer and longer and the companies have implemented systems that are not efficient but they refuse to consider any changes. I would venture most of management have never worked a day on the rails.
Never worked a day in a union. I know plenty of guys who do, and I know s couple of railroad guys. These railroad workers have been working for over two years with a contract. Over 6 without a raise. 24/7/365 without dedicated days off. They have been going through a process makes "two weeks to flatten the curve" look sane, and still can't strike. Maybe I'm missing , but I'm having trouble seeing the point of the union.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the union is pretty weak sauce. The caveat is that it's pretty much baked into the operation as per federal law. Then entire pseudo back and forth and strike threat is more like a primitive tribal ritual warfare than actual threat.
DeleteOn the other hand, I've never, before the railroad, worked in a place where the entire focus of management is aimed at firing employees. That's what they specialize in. The joke is that they spend half a million dollars training a new railroad for the first year. And ten million trying to fire him for the rest of his career.
The help my union provides is fighting management in their day to day ridiculousness.
Safeway was that way. It's like they looked for an excuse to fire people, they didn't give a shit who you were, how long you'd been there or how clean your work record was.
Delete