Nashville’s Big Bomb Was a Very Rare Device, Experts Think
Find his test sites, top bomb experts say.
Anthony Quinn Warner’s device, although probably made of common over-the-counter components, is unique in the annals of mayhem, according to seasoned FBI bomb experts consulted by SpyTalk.
I can see it now. They will figure out he used 20# tanks of propane so now we will be limited to only 5# bottles and we will have to show ID to purchase them.
As I'm understanding how these devices work (5 minutes on the Internet), the same volume of fuel in more containers at a similar pressure will result in the same level of destructive force, with the bonus of more shrapnel. A larger number of containers would only serve to complicate the build, largely because of the need for multiple or shaped charges to get the timing right.
Not to mention, surely TPTB are familiar with a simple device called a transfiller? They're usually used to fill small tanks from larger ones. But the reverse can be done, albeit not easily or in an efficient way.
I'm strictly a layman, so please don't laugh. But the basics of this doesn't appear to be that complex. Or maybe I need to stick to diesel fuel and fertilizer. ;-)
They damned sure tested weren't around here - I live 5 miles from a little bitty town and I still can't drive a quarter mile without seeing a house. No fucking way did he test a bomb in middle Tennessee without drawing some serious attention.
The police referred the incident to the FBI and, as usual, the FBI DID NOTHING except show up after the fact and determined that someone made a bomb. Now, after the fact, they'll go in search of his "test sites", of which they'll find exactly ZERO.
Yet they spent 3+ years investigating President Trump based on a dossier that THEY KNEW WAS FAKE NEWS.
I had it figured for an FAE, too. I'm not too keen on their "expert", though. That POS McVeigh didn't use anfo. He bought a 55 gallon drum of nitromethane and used it in place of the fuel oil. The difference? About 2.5X the power. Changes it from a push to a punch. Dave
funny, a week ago they said it was home made nitro, lol. i don't doubt a propan tank or two were involved, every rv has them. but he had a bona fide explosive permit from 1995 to 1999. why? besides thermobaric isn't that hard. you don't try to blow the tanks, you blow the valves off, then a few seconds later you blow the propane as it expands into the room/house/rv.
Don't discount the nitro but not liquid. Used a stabilizer. They found traces on a tree trunk. Here's a blast from the past. Eight city blocks of downtown Roseburg, Oregon destroyed with 2 tons of dynamite and 4 1/2 tons of ammonium nitrate on August 7, 1959. The trucker was killed while having early morning coffee and breakfast across the street. I was a kid then and had just passed through the town on way to the Pendleton Round Up with my parents. We came back to California through Eastern Oregon to avoid the detour at Roseburg. https://www.cityofroseburg.org/visitors/1959-blast https://www.cityofroseburg.org/visitors/1959-blast
he blew the valves off, and had a gas detector or even just an air pressure gauge hooked up to some kind of igniter in the upper vent or in the rooftop AC unit. once the pressure inside hit the right number, BOOM.
I'd be willing to bet he wasn't even inside..or if he was he was already dead.
sorta what i was saying. he had a permit. dynamite used in tenn for mining n such. no need to make it at home, less risk. i think they wee just covering for the previous agents that botched the tip off years ago.
Matt Bracken called that air fuel deal like on the next day. One of videos I saw had what looked like a missile going up. I figured it was aa propane tank.
McVeigh's bomb wouldn't have done a quarter of the damage if the building was constructed correctly, with all the rebar linked together. But post-bomb analysis shows that the front facade of the building wasn't tied together. The Blast lifted the front a scad, and then the whole front face cascaded downward, pulling the building down.
There was also an issue of sub-standard concrete. But properly rebarred together, the sub-standard concrete wouldn't have been a problem. Interestingly, with the specified concrete, most likely the rebar situation would have been mostly mitigated, only collapsing a smaller section.
Contrast that to the Pentagon, where an internal blast was contained because the building structure was tied together and had the proper concrete mix used properly. Yes, a collapse, but only in the blast area. Not collapse of the surrounding structure.
The Murrah building is a classic in 'bought' building contractors and how the construction supervisors 'saved' money by cutting corners.
If the building was constructed as the plans specified, the blast would have destroyed the porch, blown windows in, and destroyed the lobby. That's it. But, no... Instead, boom, up, down, and everything pulled forward with the facade.
McVeigh was an asshole, but he was nowhere near the murderer that he's made out to be. That would be the construction supervisors who changed the plans and their pet building inspectors.
I’m going to keep my opinions to myself on this one. I’ll call some old contacts in a month or two and find out the details. I’ve seen a film of monkeys strapped into high chairs and a FAE bomb detonated in the center of them. Extremely violent and instantaneous. Not what I’ve seen of the Nashville bombing. Eod1sg Ret
I don't understand why these people think this would be difficult or take lots of practice/testing. I am not an expert and have no training of any kind in explosives. However, I do know electronics and so did this guy. A person could get a gas meter with programmable alarm points for combustable gasses, set it for the proper level for combustion, hook the alarm circuit to something that would create enough heat or fire for ignition and then set a timer to open the gas valves. All you need is the data for the right fuel air mix.
It's like nobody knows how to do anything or how anything works anymore. If Achmed in the desert who can't read or write can build cell phone detonated bombs I am sure a computer/electronics guy with internet, money and resources can too.
Achmed in the desert gets his toys handed to him (or more accurately, false-flagged to him to keep the narrative going). Not trying to be overly critical, Jeremy, but "all you need is the data for the right fuel air mix" is a bunch of nested cans of worms.
If the RV actually did this thing, then he either got very lucky or else someone who knows what they are doing set it up for him.
The guy trying to figure it out the hard way is the one missing fingers.
"Experts" *spits* The Cubans in Miami were using thermobaric bombs in the '80s against travel services circumventing the Cuban boycott. They were very devastating. Trash can with a 16 oz propane bottle inside, a votive candle on top of an overturned lid. I'll leave the rest to you guys.
Woman: My boy friend is making a bomb, and he's gonna blow something up. Po-leece: Thank you, ma'am. We'll get the information to the FBI. FBI to po-leece: You're calling from where? Yeah, thanks. We'll check it out. (Hangs up.) Dumbf*** hillbillies.
The story is that Warner committed suicide/died in the blast. It's possible that he never fully perfected a method of reliably triggering it remotely and thus chose to do so manually thus guaranteeing that the bomb worked but at the cost of his own life. The problem with this methodology is you can only do it once. Unless you are a raghead. They'll strap dynamite to themselves and go kaboom. Recruiting people to act as a detonator for a FAE bomb wouldn't be anymore difficult.
To fill the entire Class B RV with a stoichiometric propane/air mixture you only need part of one of those little Bernz-O-Matic torch bottles.
"Fuel-air explosive", riiiiight. Any "expert" who is using those words is deliberately lying to you.
For those of you who are doubtful, look up the optimum (stoichiometric) fuel/air mix for propane, look up the weight per cubic foot, SWAG the interior volume of the RV, and then divide to make a guesstimate of the amount of propane needed. Oh, and it just needs an ordinary spark to set it off; a BBQ ignitor will do just fine.
I made steel in a factory, and in order to reduce the carbon content, we blew O2 into the molten bath, which combined with Carbon, forming Carbon Monoxide, thus lowering the Carbon value. We calculated the amount of Oxygen to use, measured in cubic feet, using stoichiometric formulas, that we developed over time and experience. We called 10 cubic feet one "count" of oxygen, and one count of oxygen was supposed to tie up one pound of carbon, in a 10 ton bath of steel, of any different alloy. What we had discovered was that there were always variables to the process, and it was never as exact as the formula would indicate, and it called for judgement, based on such variables as the starting temperature, the wear on the vessel, the build up of slag on the mouth of the vessel, the length of the tuyere, or the tube that stuck into the vessel and injected the oxygen and other gasses into the bath, and even the humidity of the air depending upon the season. All of these thing we considered in our head, as we gained experience, since this was a technique that we developed ourselves. And I suspect that for someone seeking to use the air fuel mixture type of bomb, the experience required would also be important, if it was going to be a thing that they wanted to become a repeatable event. A simple one off,they could just do a remote detonation, which should not be that hard, and if it didn't achieve the desired impact that got the attention that they wanted,they could just try again. My thoughts on this one is that somehow the guy either wanted to commit suicide, or it was a set up, and he was killed and place in the bomb area to influence the public into thinking that it was a lone white guy, attempting to take any thoughts off of the other type of bombers, for future events. Suicide seems just too convenient,and like Timothy McVeigh, quite a coincidence that they found him right away. McVeigh was conveniently stopped for what, a broken tail light? And the rental truck was identified by an axle which was found some several blocks away, that just happened to have the VIN number etched on it. Now I know that vehicles have VIN numbers etched on hidden parts such as the frame, transmission, etc. But to have the number on the axle that they found, so quickly, was just a miracle, along with catching Timothy McVeigh on a traffic stop, while trying to make his getaway unobserved from the place where he had just blown up a federal building? A building where for some reason the ATF was not there, but was at another location, on the exact morning that the bomb went off. And the evidence, in the form of the hole in the ground, along with the ruins of the building was quickly bulldozed under, before outside experts could look over the bomb site,for evidence of how the bomb actually was made, and how it took down an entire building. But hey, that is just conspiracy theory,don't you know.
I can see it now. They will figure out he used 20# tanks of propane so now we will be limited to only 5# bottles and we will have to show ID to purchase them.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the background check for each refill.
DeleteDon't laugh. It worked with Pseudofed. No one can get meth in Tennessee now. Right? Right?...
DeleteAs I'm understanding how these devices work (5 minutes on the Internet), the same volume of fuel in more containers at a similar pressure will result in the same level of destructive force, with the bonus of more shrapnel. A larger number of containers would only serve to complicate the build, largely because of the need for multiple or shaped charges to get the timing right.
DeleteNot to mention, surely TPTB are familiar with a simple device called a transfiller? They're usually used to fill small tanks from larger ones. But the reverse can be done, albeit not easily or in an efficient way.
I'm strictly a layman, so please don't laugh. But the basics of this doesn't appear to be that complex. Or maybe I need to stick to diesel fuel and fertilizer. ;-)
Top men.
ReplyDeleteTOP....MEN.
Hahaha, find his test sites.
ReplyDeleteWhy do I get the feeling if they actually cared they'd be looking around langley, va
They damned sure tested weren't around here - I live 5 miles from a little bitty town and I still can't drive a quarter mile without seeing a house. No fucking way did he test a bomb in middle Tennessee without drawing some serious attention.
DeleteThe police referred the incident to the FBI and, as usual, the FBI DID NOTHING except show up after the fact and determined that someone made a bomb. Now, after the fact, they'll go in search of his "test sites", of which they'll find exactly ZERO.
ReplyDeleteYet they spent 3+ years investigating President Trump based on a dossier that THEY KNEW WAS FAKE NEWS.
Bueler? BUELER? ANYONE?
Nemo
Not fair to say they did nothing. They most likely either helped, or provided the cover story for the missile.
DeleteI love how they used the end of the article to push their bullshit gun control narrative.
ReplyDeleteWylieMike
Yeah. That pissed me off pretty good too.
DeleteYuhoo News. It's what they do.
DeleteI had it figured for an FAE, too. I'm not too keen on their "expert", though. That POS McVeigh didn't use anfo. He bought a 55 gallon drum of nitromethane and used it in place of the fuel oil. The difference? About 2.5X the power. Changes it from a push to a punch.
ReplyDeleteDave
ever read the book "the third terrorist" by Jayna Davis? McVeigh wouldn't have figured that out on his own.
DeleteIt’s hard to be mad anymore at the folks who attack a Federal building.
DeleteExcept there was a daycare and other civilian employment in there.
Deletefunny, a week ago they said it was home made nitro, lol. i don't doubt a propan tank or two were involved, every rv has them. but he had a bona fide explosive permit from 1995 to 1999. why? besides thermobaric isn't that hard. you don't try to blow the tanks, you blow the valves off, then a few seconds later you blow the propane as it expands into the room/house/rv.
ReplyDeleteDon't discount the nitro but not liquid. Used a stabilizer. They found traces on a tree trunk. Here's a blast from the past. Eight city blocks of downtown Roseburg, Oregon destroyed with 2 tons of dynamite and 4 1/2 tons of ammonium nitrate on August 7, 1959. The trucker was killed while having early morning coffee and breakfast across the street. I was a kid then and had just passed through the town on way to the Pendleton Round Up with my parents. We came back to California through Eastern Oregon to avoid the detour at Roseburg.
Deletehttps://www.cityofroseburg.org/visitors/1959-blast
https://www.cityofroseburg.org/visitors/1959-blast
he blew the valves off, and had a gas detector or even just an air pressure gauge hooked up to some kind of igniter in the upper vent or in the rooftop AC unit. once the pressure inside hit the right number, BOOM.
DeleteI'd be willing to bet he wasn't even inside..or if he was he was already dead.
sorta what i was saying. he had a permit. dynamite used in tenn for mining n such. no need to make it at home, less risk. i think they wee just covering for the previous agents that botched the tip off years ago.
DeleteMatt Bracken called that air fuel deal like on the next day. One of videos I saw had what looked like a missile going up. I figured it was aa propane tank.
ReplyDeleteEven more "rare" than McVeigh and Nichols' impossible Murrah Building bomb?
ReplyDeleteMcVeigh's bomb wouldn't have done a quarter of the damage if the building was constructed correctly, with all the rebar linked together. But post-bomb analysis shows that the front facade of the building wasn't tied together. The Blast lifted the front a scad, and then the whole front face cascaded downward, pulling the building down.
DeleteThere was also an issue of sub-standard concrete. But properly rebarred together, the sub-standard concrete wouldn't have been a problem. Interestingly, with the specified concrete, most likely the rebar situation would have been mostly mitigated, only collapsing a smaller section.
Contrast that to the Pentagon, where an internal blast was contained because the building structure was tied together and had the proper concrete mix used properly. Yes, a collapse, but only in the blast area. Not collapse of the surrounding structure.
The Murrah building is a classic in 'bought' building contractors and how the construction supervisors 'saved' money by cutting corners.
If the building was constructed as the plans specified, the blast would have destroyed the porch, blown windows in, and destroyed the lobby. That's it. But, no... Instead, boom, up, down, and everything pulled forward with the facade.
McVeigh was an asshole, but he was nowhere near the murderer that he's made out to be. That would be the construction supervisors who changed the plans and their pet building inspectors.
I’m going to keep my opinions to myself on this one. I’ll call some old contacts in a month or two and find out the details. I’ve seen a film of monkeys strapped into high chairs and a FAE bomb detonated in the center of them. Extremely violent and instantaneous. Not what I’ve seen of the Nashville bombing. Eod1sg Ret
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why these people think this would be difficult or take lots of practice/testing. I am not an expert and have no training of any kind in explosives. However, I do know electronics and so did this guy. A person could get a gas meter with programmable alarm points for combustable gasses, set it for the proper level for combustion, hook the alarm circuit to something that would create enough heat or fire for ignition and then set a timer to open the gas valves. All you need is the data for the right fuel air mix.
ReplyDeleteIt's like nobody knows how to do anything or how anything works anymore. If Achmed in the desert who can't read or write can build cell phone detonated bombs I am sure a computer/electronics guy with internet, money and resources can too.
Jeremy P.
Achmed in the desert gets his toys handed to him (or more accurately, false-flagged to him to keep the narrative going). Not trying to be overly critical, Jeremy, but "all you need is the data for the right fuel air mix" is a bunch of nested cans of worms.
DeleteIf the RV actually did this thing, then he either got very lucky or else someone who knows what they are doing set it up for him.
The guy trying to figure it out the hard way is the one missing fingers.
"Experts" *spits* The Cubans in Miami were using thermobaric bombs in the '80s against travel services circumventing the Cuban boycott. They were very devastating. Trash can with a 16 oz propane bottle inside, a votive candle on top of an overturned lid. I'll leave the rest to you guys.
ReplyDeleteWoman: My boy friend is making a bomb, and he's gonna blow something up.
ReplyDeletePo-leece: Thank you, ma'am. We'll get the information to the FBI.
FBI to po-leece: You're calling from where? Yeah, thanks. We'll check it out. (Hangs up.) Dumbf*** hillbillies.
The story is that Warner committed suicide/died in the blast. It's possible that he never fully perfected a method of reliably triggering it remotely and thus chose to do so manually thus guaranteeing that the bomb worked but at the cost of his own life. The problem with this methodology is you can only do it once. Unless you are a raghead. They'll strap dynamite to themselves and go kaboom. Recruiting people to act as a detonator for a FAE bomb wouldn't be anymore difficult.
ReplyDeleteYou need a sealed volume, the right mixture, well mixed, and an igniter. Doesn't seem impossible.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the owner of the RV was smarter than the FBI???
ReplyDeleteTo fill the entire Class B RV with a stoichiometric propane/air mixture you only need part of one of those little Bernz-O-Matic torch bottles.
ReplyDelete"Fuel-air explosive", riiiiight. Any "expert" who is using those words is deliberately lying to you.
For those of you who are doubtful, look up the optimum (stoichiometric) fuel/air mix for propane, look up the weight per cubic foot, SWAG the interior volume of the RV, and then divide to make a guesstimate of the amount of propane needed. Oh, and it just needs an ordinary spark to set it off; a BBQ ignitor will do just fine.
I made steel in a factory, and in order to reduce the carbon content, we blew O2 into the molten bath, which combined with Carbon, forming Carbon Monoxide, thus lowering the Carbon value. We calculated the amount of Oxygen to use, measured in cubic feet, using stoichiometric formulas, that we developed over time and experience. We called 10 cubic feet one "count" of oxygen, and one count of oxygen was supposed to tie up one pound of carbon, in a 10 ton bath of steel, of any different alloy. What we had discovered was that there were always variables to the process, and it was never as exact as the formula would indicate, and it called for judgement, based on such variables as the starting temperature, the wear on the vessel, the build up of slag on the mouth of the vessel, the length of the tuyere, or the tube that stuck into the vessel and injected the oxygen and other gasses into the bath, and even the humidity of the air depending upon the season.
DeleteAll of these thing we considered in our head, as we gained experience, since this was a technique that we developed ourselves. And I suspect that for someone seeking to use the air fuel mixture type of bomb, the experience required would also be important, if it was going to be a thing that they wanted to become a repeatable event. A simple one off,they could just do a remote detonation, which should not be that hard, and if it didn't achieve the desired impact that got the attention that they wanted,they could just try again.
My thoughts on this one is that somehow the guy either wanted to commit suicide, or it was a set up, and he was killed and place in the bomb area to influence the public into thinking that it was a lone white guy, attempting to take any thoughts off of the other type of bombers, for future events. Suicide seems just too convenient,and like Timothy McVeigh, quite a coincidence that they found him right away. McVeigh was conveniently stopped for what, a broken tail light? And the rental truck was identified by an axle which was found some several blocks away, that just happened to have the VIN number etched on it. Now I know that vehicles have VIN numbers etched on hidden parts such as the frame, transmission, etc. But to have the number on the axle that they found, so quickly, was just a miracle, along with catching Timothy McVeigh on a traffic stop, while trying to make his getaway unobserved from the place where he had just blown up a federal building? A building where for some reason the ATF was not there, but was at another location, on the exact morning that the bomb went off. And the evidence, in the form of the hole in the ground, along with the ruins of the building was quickly bulldozed under, before outside experts could look over the bomb site,for evidence of how the bomb actually was made, and how it took down an entire building. But hey, that is just conspiracy theory,don't you know.
pigpen51