Hey Kenny,
Hope all is well with you and yours. I have a question the internet can't answer to my satisfaction, but I'm sure your readers can. I have a set of USMC surplus SAPI plats marked "TRNG ONLY." They appear to be real plates and are not visibly cracked or otherwise unserviceable. Everything I have been told or taught about body armor tells me the expiration dates are mostly for liability, and if the armor is stored under proper conditions and not otherwise abused, it maintains it's ballistic resistant properties. I asked around among friends within LE/Mil and they claim the "TRNG ONLY" marks mean this is real body armor that was issued and carried "downrange," and that all armor, once issued and carried overseas, is relegated to training only in case there was a crack or other damage to it. So, according to them, when the (in my opinion) not too far off spiciness occurs, these plates are GTG use wise. That being said, the internet tells me these are no good and should not be trusted.
Probably fine. Of course the only way to be certain would be to shoot at them which in the case of SAPI plates would render them useless.
ReplyDeleteExpiration dates are meaningless.
When the military switched from SAPI to ESAPI plates, they were destroying the SAPIs.
As budgets got tighter for body armor, they wanted to stop using ESAPIs during training exercises. They actually designed and paid for training plates that were the same size and weight and virtually indestructible in training. Hard plastic of some type. You could take a hammer to them. White in color.
Then someone had a bright idea. Why not just use the old SAPI plates and mark them training use only. Some were painted like in the example. Others had a red sticker that virtually impossible to remove.
UHMW plastic, which means Ultra High Molecular Weight. That shtuff is some tough stuff. Thin sheets are used to make sleds or to line the bottom of the runners on dog sleds.
DeleteThicker stuff, covered in bed liner, can stop AK ammo (either the -47 or the -74.)
"Rocket Ship Rednecks" starring Dr. Travis Taylor, had an episode where they worked on pretty much a full suit of UHMW and kevlar. It was relatively light, light enough the good Doc ran a half-marathon in the darned stuff.
Years back I got ahold of some outdated armor. It had been used in Kosovo and exposed to the elements.
ReplyDeleteWe set it up with a water jug behind. Failure was when the jug leaked. It took ten shots from a 30-06 at less than fifty feet, followed by 22 shots from a 44 magnum before a fragment got to the water jug. All shots were in a one INCH spot.
I cannot imagine what a person would feel like enduring that kind of torture.
Kevlar will delaminate with exposure to the elements, but it takes a lot to reach the compromise point.
Those plates are not made of kevlar.
DeleteThe NSN on that is for real armor, so my guess is that his mil/LE buddies are correct. I'd open it up and inspect it for signs of wear; if it looks good, it probably is good.
ReplyDeleteNo no no. It is a ceramic plate, and you cannot detect the cracks inside without an xray.
DeleteWelcome to the internet, where the advice is worth what you paid for it.
ReplyDeleteI was trained as Light Infantry. We didn't even have kneepads, and the M1 steel pot was used for blanket inspections, but never used to cook live brains in the field. Being fast was considered conducive to Not Getting Shot, and every gram was something you could eat, drink, fire, speak with, or sleep under.
If you have access to more of these plate things, then test them yourself, according to the scenario in which you expect to use them. Get some same size hardened steel plates made, with epoxy/kevlar spall liner and padding, in case you need replacements (very unlikely...the bad guys have several bullets each, and several friends). May The Lord be with you and yours.
Looks good and usable. Very probably as good as new.
ReplyDeleteI would wear it, exercising the customary & appropriate caution.
18 years old wouldn't keep me from wearing them. The experts and the manufacturer will tell you that you are rusking life or injury and I say to them...piss up a rope. Thus whole expiration date BS is out control. Look at it this way...if all you have in hand is .22LR pistol when you need to defend yourself or others then that makes it the best caliber to have. Same thing goes for your plates. Better to have them, expired or not, than not have them at all. If you are unsure or hesitant, I'll send you my address and maybe we can make a deal.
ReplyDeleteif your in a gun fight, use it. it's better than nothing.
ReplyDeleteEven if it's somewhat downgraded, it will work on pistol and carbine rounds (NIJ Level III+)
DeleteTraining rounds don't work so just why do you figure training plates work?
ReplyDeleteThank you Kenny and fellow Knuckledraggers. I believe I have my answer.
ReplyDeleteMick in Texas
The old flak jackets of the 60's were double plated fiberglass panels or some shit. Heavy as hell. We used to cut the insides with a bayonet and remove the second plate.
ReplyDeleteCops and soldiers are trained to shoot for "center of mass". A good example is the North Hollywood Shootout.
ReplyDeletePrivate individuals, not having to follow policy, are free to shoot where the armor isn't. And .308-proof armor isn't very effective against many common hunting rounds.
Yep.Correct. In situations where ROE DO NOT apply Go where the armor isn't. Ie head, arms, legs (large arteries). Just sayn'. Even just winging them will bring fellow comrades to the rescue. You know what to do.
DeleteVermillion
Okay, part of the turn in/get issued of these plates is an xray to determine if they are damaged internally. If they are found to have cracks, or other imperceptible damage, they are labelled for training use only. They are good for getting used to haulling plates, and learning how to move in armor. If they are cracked on the inside, invisible to you, they will fail along the crack when ballistically challenged. You don't know where the crack is, and you don't know how big it is. It is a risk you will take if you use them. I would rather have armor that isn't known to have some defect that was too bad for the Army to use.
ReplyDeleteEmail inbound, Ken.
ReplyDeleteFairplayjeepguy
I know you said no guesswork, but without being able to look at them or know anything else about them, we can really only guess. It’s a pretty common practice to take old shit that .mil says is officially unserviceable and use it like that. That is also how such things seem to magically grow legs and walk off. They typically aren’t inventory anymore and are officially removed from the books. Those are legit plates, and that’s exactly what you’d expect one to look like, but without opening them up and inspecting them, there’s no way to know for sure they weren’t dropped or shot or anything. It’s just like Kevlar. Yes, they ‘expire’ in 5 years but that’s for two reasons - one, liability. Two, so that we continually have to buy new shit from them. Yes, it does break down overtime, but I’ve never seen expired body armor not do exactly what it’s supposed to do.
ReplyDeleteThose SAPI plates are supposed to be replaced if dropped hard or especially shot even once, but there are YouTube videos galore of those things taking round after round of punishment and enduring far more than they are supposed to before failing. Unlike Kevlar, the SAPI plates don’t really break down overtime.
TL/DR version - if able, I’d buy new ones and keep those as backups. But if not, I personally would use them
Gator