Is college worth it? Well, it depends on what degree you're getting and where you're getting it, according to a new paper from the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity (FREOPP), an economic opportunity think tank.
While more than three-quarters of all bachelor's degrees have a positive return on investment (ROI), according to the paper, master's and associate degrees are much riskier bets—with many costing students in the long run.
I find much of this hard to believe, though I admit I didn't read the linked paper, just the article.
ReplyDelete"77 percent of bachelor's degrees and doctoral and professional degrees have a positive ROI" Professional, I believe. But 77% of bachelor's degrees, given the way they've watered down courses to get those tasty fed dollars? And doctoral? An article I read some years ago indicated increasing salaries from bachelor to master's, then a very large decrease with a doctoral degree. Disclaimer: I'm an engineer, so it could have been an article limited to engineering salaries.
Re: where you go - I'm sure there's some truth to that, but I'd be interested to see something controlling for students' motivation, if possible. Interestingly, in my experience, students who went back to school after some time in the job market post-secondary did much better than the ones who went straight to college from HS.
Report is overly optimistic. Many of those bachelors degrees are at best marginal. It also matters (as they said) WHERE you get the degree, and certainly WHAT you do with it (for example, an English degree- pretty much zero return unless you just use it to get into a credential required job, say advertising or brand management).
ReplyDeleteWhen college was worth it (1970 and before), 20% of people were eligible (that is, had the grades from a rigorous high school program AND were likely to graduate in 4 years or less). The federal loan programs and the 'must go' mindset created a huge influx of those who couldn't benefit but could be harvested for cash. And they were.
Degrees are nothing but bragging promoting bullshit. They're all about making assholes feel superior to others without degrees. Along with myself most of my best friends just got through high school, joined the military and after worked for companies until they retired. Some created their own companies. Some of them went to night school went they were working and raising families. I wouldn't trade one of them for 100 douchebags with master degrees in gender studies.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who is a great automotive mechanic, if he can't fix it you're fucked.
ReplyDeleteHe has many customers in high paying professions including doctors.... Once in a casual conversation with my doctor who I knew was a customer of my friend he said, "James charges as much as I do and I'm happy to pay it"
It's not the paper that matters, it's what you do with it
JD
Your degree is good for your first job. After that it is your experience that counts. Getting that first job can be a pain in the schiffer.
ReplyDeleteI agree for your first job, after that its what value you create. I will add that its better to have an engineering degree than one in philosophy. No one pay's shit for philosophy.
DeleteI have often wondered about how useful they are in finding a job
ReplyDeleteMD, "Get a degree in philosophy."
ReplyDeleteGS, "Is there money to be made in philosophy?"
MD, "Yes, if you have the right philosophy."
Per Max Dugan.
I have a Masters in Sarcasm, al self-paid of course. I benefit from it every day.
ReplyDeleteI have a Gson who is entering his senior year of HS and wants to attend a 4 year college. His grades aren't that good, so a scholarship isn't happening for him. He's very much into video gaming and wants to "build computers" but doesn't want to learn coding. I told him he should get a 2 yr certificate; maybe an EE but that involves learning a C++ or Perl, probably both. Any suggestions?
ReplyDeleteI was a C, maybe B student in K-12, but when I decided it was time to go to college, I was also ready to learn. Community College will accept anyone and I wouldn't worry about grades. Community college is about as hard as grade school was twenty years ago. One of my professors handed out 100s just for submitting an assignment, even if it was a chatGPT response, although this is an extreme example.
DeleteYour grandson's aspirations are pretty common for someone his age and I had similar notions back when I was still in my teen years. "Building computers" likely means building custom desktop PCs and maybe some fabrication on the side. If there are any computer shops or repair shops paying at least 22-25/hr, that may be an option to get some work experience, anything less than 22/hr is not worth the time. He might check out Louis Rossman's repair channel on Youtube and see if he wants to get into hardware repair. There isn't a lot of money in simply building PCs, so I suggest he look at IT specialist, robotics engineering, etc.
If his interest goes beyond playing games and into creating them, then he will need to learn Photoshop, Unreal engine, Z-Brush, Maya, Substance Painter, etc. If you dawn your pirate hat then GfxPeers is invaluable for getting graphics software. Aside from indie studios, game companies are often staffed with hundreds of professionals, 3D modelers that specialize in weapons, props, character design, animation, etc., programmers for A.I, scripting, plugins, etc., psychologists for more realistic characters, writers, texture artists, voice actors, motion capture, etc. Generative A.I. is going to replace a lot of people, so learning how to program neural networks may be one of the best options to going game design. It all ties into Unreal Engine which is dominating the future of gaming.
You may try to get him interested in the pathway I'm currently on. Neurotechnology and human enhancement is my endgame, even though I'm pursuing a chemistry degree as my insurance policy. Think Braingate, Neuralink, and neuro-prosthesis which are the beginnings of human enhancement. . . or a technocratic, dystopian future with only masters and slaves. It can also involve designing and developing prosthetic limbs that integrate to the implants that are interfaced to the brain. If he wants to build computers, then building computers that interface with the human body is an excellent option, both invasive and non-invasive.
Back in the 90s, brain implants were just sci-fi, or clunky medical devices bolted onto someone's skull and had limited use. Now, neurotech is a multi-disciplinary field that is a crossroad of neural networks, medicine, neuroscience, and engineering. Some schools are even offering specific courses for the field, like "Neural Engineering", but students can come from any number of majors. Bioengineering, biochemistry, neuroscience, computer science, medical, etc. all valid.
The more he learns, the more he might find his aspirations change because of how interconnected different fields are. He could combine a science with repairing computers and get a VERY lucrative job repairing scientific equipment.
- Arc
Nicely stated. He sounds like a normal kid; lots of dreams, and little to no ambition to achieve them. Liking video games and "building" computers are not really a linked career path per se. You can take just about any kid and teach them how to assemble a computer at a component level. Figuring out what you want to do with your life involves slightly more effort, ie: getting off your butt and applying yourself. I believe Dean Wormer at Faber College covered this very subject. You have to want something bad enough to make the sacrifice. Good luck!
DeleteIn the dark ages of education, before internet and digi-devices, having a degree meant something, and a degreed professional brought real skills to their employer. These days college is just gate keeping and a filter to keep low class people out of higher employment. The only fields that genuinely require a college degree are professional fields like medicine, law, finance, STEM, etc. and these have their own in-industry testing.
ReplyDeleteThankfully, the American Taxpayer is both paying for my degree and paying me to get one. It's my passport to a better country and a better life.
- Arc
I'm a retired science teacher (majored in history - emphasis on quantitative analysis - and minored in science). My masters cost me around 10K. I mad that back in a couple of years with the increase in pay for doing it. A master's in a southern school is less common, so between my years of experience, and that, I was often the highest paid teacher on the staff.
ReplyDeleteBut, I took my education in increments - 2 years at a community college, collected an AA in Business, 2 more years at a 4 year university - was able to get a science teacher job right after. The masters was done in my spare time.
YMMV
ReplyDelete